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Author Topic: cheapy gen set  (Read 6012 times)
robertglines1
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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2010, 03:55:52 PM »

I agree with the safety factor on contractor models..every year or so we have a couple die by using one in a attached garage...it seeps in under door (deadly Gases) ...then we have the ones that have them in the house trailer with them. !!!Do what you need but stay alive!!!Lots of good used RV gen sets out there..just bought a 7.5 for 1500$ with 34 hrs on it..
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 03:59:10 PM by robertglines1 » Logged

Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
cody
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« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2010, 04:14:37 PM »

Bob, what killed that couple was not the generator but the fumes from improperly venting the fumes, all generators can be dangerous, what is deadly is how the exhaust is directed or misdirected, you can properly vent most any generator, this arguement is frustrating from the standpoint that only a particular model or type is acceptable, it's like the noise level, all generators start loud, what quiets a generator down is the application of soundproofing material.  Many things can be used to properly safeguard from the fumes, even a properly vented generator can kill the couple next door, the idea for venting up and above the unit is normally concidered safer than the usual exhaust out the side.  According to both primary generator suppliers listed here in the magazine, the regulations mandate the level of fumes and the directing or dispersal of the fumes not the company or style of generator, even a contractor style generator can meet the regulations with the application of a containment system for directing and exhausting the fumes.
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Iceni John
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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2010, 04:53:15 PM »

Why would a "proper" RV-type water-cooled gasoline- or LPG-fueled generator be safer than a portable gasoline- or LPG-fueled generator?   My exhaust runs to the far side, no different than expensive built-in generators' exhausts, so no difference there.   My portable generator is less likely to overheat than one built inside a bus, sitting deep inside its sealed-off compartment;  mine has plenty of cooling air, probably far more cooling than a water-cooled internal generator.   If the direction of the exhaust is an issue, I can run a vertical extension just as easily as someone with a built-in gen.   If (heaven forbid) my gen catches fire it is less likely to burn the whole bus down because its mostly outside, compared to one buried deep inside the bus's bowels.   I had thought about wiring a remote kill switch inside my bus, so I can shut down the gen without getting near it  -  maybe that will be my next project this weekend.

Yes, I know that diesel is an intrinsically safer fuel than gasoline or LPG, but I have neither the money nor the space for such a generator.

Sean, I understand your concern.   However, I do not have the same financial resources as some others on this forum, and I have to use the least-expensive option, otherwise I simply won't get anything done at all.   Some folk spend far more on their generators than I spent on my entire bus!   I have considered the risks, and am prepared to live with them.   I have made a ventilated compartment for the gasoline can, entirely separate from any other enclosed space, and absolutely nothing will be stored in sealed interior storage at all  -  everything that could potentially leak, drip or vent will be in well-ventilated open-floored areas.   How many other busnuts here have only open-floored spaces for their batteries and anything else that can leak?   My bus may end up being actually safer than some other higher-dollar conversions out there.

John, getting poorer but wiser each day
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robertglines1
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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2010, 05:22:17 PM »

Both put out power...and properly vented and operated...will do the job...the point being be careful...most RV designated gen sets have some of the safety devices as standard equip..I have had the same thoughts you have had about contractor gen sets...But I have been lucky 4 times to find a good used RV gen set under 1600$ carbonmonoxide sensors are cheap insurance. I'm not of the rich class..I pinch pennies and build a lot of my own systems..can't afford to buy the 12000$ gen sets.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 05:26:11 PM by robertglines1 » Logged

Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
Chaz
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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2010, 07:12:36 PM »

I and Paul Elbisser just bought two used 7.5kw Kabota/Onan Cummins diesel gens. They are 3 phase that I am wiring to 120 single phase. (Just have to switch wires)
Paul decided he doesn't want to use his and will sell it. You are looking a cool grand. It only has 1200 hours on it. In my eyes, that's a steal.
  Contact him if you are interested.
    Chaz
  
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niles500
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« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2010, 07:43:39 PM »

Sean is right - READ THE MANUAL - it will say it right there - no need to make Sean prove it - FWIW
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« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2010, 07:53:27 PM »

While there is nothing more satisfying then a smooth running Diesel generator purring away for hours and hours on end making your portable power pole, there is also nothing more frustrating than to have a noisy, gasoline powered el cheapo generator that overheats, konks out at the wrong time (is there ever a right time?), putting up with fumeous gasoline and the highly toxic exhaust fumes, finicky carbureators, fouling spark plugs, dealing with proper ventilation of an air cooled engine (can you tell I detest gasoline powered anything?).  I think the genset is the number one item after the bus itself that you should not scrimp on.  A well made Diesel genset will give you years of faithful service with nothing more then oil and filter changes (once again I mention my truck driver friend with 23,000 hours on his Diesel genset [8kw Powertech with 3 cylinder Kubota] when he sold his truck).  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2010, 08:12:04 PM »

I bought the Yamaha 3K inverter model and love it. Nice and quiet, and in a pinch, feeding a Trace 4024, will run two roof airs for awhile, with an amp or 3 bleeding from the battery bank.

My dealer, friend of a friend, 40 years in building up a motorcycle/small engines dealership, sold both the Honda and the Yamaha lines.

He was ambivalent about brand loyalty, no difference in come backs, I got the Yamaha, because there was an incentive on.

He sold the dealership, and two years later, it was gone. As the story goes, the new owner found a mistress in cocaine...

Anyway, include the quiet Yamaha in your thoughts about quiet Hondas.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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cody
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« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2010, 08:16:40 PM »

My contention is not with the reliability of a diesel generator, but when a factory produced manual is given the power and authority of law I have a problem with that.  I can find no law that mandates the use of a particular generator, if it in fact exists, show me where it lists the only generators that are legal for use.  I find several codes that clearly state how exhaust is to be handled and vented but nothing that lists one generator as being illegal and another one as being legal, only the requirements for proper venting and exhaust. Clearly some generators are better suited for a particular job but that doesn't make other types illegal if properly installed. I'm not sure a generator that costs several thousand dollars can be concidered as a cheapo either, I do realize some here on the board are fantastically wealthy and can write the massive checks needed to buy the 15K units or 20K units but those of us that have to settle for the ones that only cost a few thousand can in fact operate and install them safely and in accordance with proper procedures and meet code.
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buswarrior
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« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2010, 08:24:33 PM »

I'd be pretty sure that on a work site, that a government labor/safety type inspector would be writing tickets if a contractor generator not intended for the purpose was being operated enclosed.

Not in one of those "business friendly" jurisdictions, I mean in one of those other ones that intend for all folks to live long and prosper.

The old "endangering the health and safety of a worker" would be slapped on.

Best practices, standard of care, manufacturer's recommendations, all become the legalese used to convict?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

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luvrbus
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« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2010, 08:40:17 PM »

I have to ask what is a contractors generator I see Dick sells standby,contractors and RV generators and they are the same unit.
Guess I am in trouble I have a marine generator bring on the water who needs highways lol .
I am probably off base here but people buy what they can afford and they find a way to make it work and not put their self or family in danger so the hats off to you guys.

good luck
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cody
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« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2010, 08:44:05 PM »

The key here is the term 'intended use', the intended use of a generator is to produce electricity, they all produce electricity in simular ways, the difference being how the exhaust is vented and how the unit is enclosed, enclosing a unit can be safely done as long as proper air movement is provided to cool the unit, most contactor generators rely on a simple bolt on muffler simular to what you would find on a lawn mower, it bolts on and can be unbolted and several companies make exhaust pipes with mufflers that direct the exhaust out of the area the same way an "rv" generator does, many of the factory provided generators are in reality only modified generators that in other lives perform other functions.  The codes are set up to provide safe operation of a generator based on the toxicity of the fumes, if those fumes are dispelled safely and in accordance with code the generator becomes in compliance with the code regardless of the style.  I still agree that some generators are better suited than others but with proper attention paid to the installation and exhaust requirements most generators can be in compliance.
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niles500
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« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2010, 09:11:37 PM »

Page 6

Do not operate within 3 feet (0.9 meter) of any walls.
Do not operate in any enclosure

Page 7

Keep the generator at least 3 feet (1 meter) away from buildings
and other equipment during operation.
Do not enclose the generator in any structure.
Keep flammable materials away from the generator.

Page 9

* Never run the generator in a closed, or even partly closed area where people may be present.

Page 25

To prevent a possible fire, keep the generator at least 3 feet (1 meter)
away from building walls and other equipment during operation. Do
not place flammable objects close to the engine

Page 27

Operate the generator at least 3 feet (1 meter) away from buildings
and other equipment

Page 79

Do not operate the generator without the wheel kit installed. The
wheel kit provides an air space between the ground and the generator
air intake.

"How many times does it need to be said/printed ?"

http://www.poweredgenerators.com/honda/manuals/31Z12602.pdf
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« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2010, 09:18:20 PM »

I have a 7.5k gas Kohler now.  My last bus came with a 3.5 Generac that developed a problem.  I got a 4k Onan on Craigslist for $200.  That was an exceptional deal, but I know I have seen them several times for under $500.  
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cody
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« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2010, 09:22:04 PM »

Niles, can you tell me what state that law is quoted from?  Or is it just from the factory produced operating manual, what we're talking about is legal vs illegal, that requires legislative action to produce a law that is signed into effect, it doesn't fit the criteria of administrative law either, when an action is said to be illegal then it has to carry the weight of law which this clearly doesn't.  A search of the MCL (michigan compliled laws) doesn't produce any thing that fits the description offered however I can find several references to proper installation and regulations in regards to fumes.  The statement made was that contractor generators and skid mounted generators were illegal for RV usage, that is the statement in contention.
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