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Author Topic: dual or single pane Peninsula sliders  (Read 3564 times)
bevans6
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« on: May 27, 2010, 07:27:07 AM »

I know the common wisdom is buy the best, which would be the dual pane - but - I am having a hard time justifying the extra cost...

Situation - bus is a Canada based bus, which means that even in summertime we get evening/night temps in the mid 70's 95% of the time.  I don't even have a bedroom AC unit.  Second - I'm only putting the Pen windows in the bedroom, both sides, for open airflow.  The rest of the windows are stock MCI single pane.  Third - bus has stock roof, no raise, no insulation. So I am scuppered anyway for heat intake during a sunny day.  Fourth - the bus won't hardly start below about 25 degrees anyway, and I have no plan to spend more than a night or two a year in it on the road driving back from the south in the middle of winter, so added insulation value for cold weather isn't striking me as a high priority.

So - with all that, do I spend the extra several hundred smackers and add the extra weight, or do I stay lean and mean?

Thanks for your thoughts...  Brian
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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2010, 07:48:43 AM »

What ever flips somebodies switch Brian a single pane window works good with the warm window treatment I have dual pane windows are they worth the extra cost I really can not tell that much difference than the single panes we had in another bus.I don't think RV double pane windows are sealed just a air space between the 2 panes  


good luck
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 07:52:21 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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cody
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« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2010, 07:49:17 AM »

Brian, just as a thought, how far are you from Elkhart Indiana?  Trina at RV Surplus normally has both single and double pane sliders with screens in stock and the price is cheap lol, Bontragers also normally have a good selection , the price I've been paying for double pane tinted sliders with screens runs around 20 to 40 dollars each depending on who is the salesman at the time lol, what you need is the measurements for the windows you need, I bought some for my bus and when Paul (Dreamscape) heard about them I got some for him too, it took almost a round the world voyage to get them from here to texas but I think they worked out ok for him, just as a thought, the you can get all 4 windows for under 200, last time I priced penninsula windows they were pretty much double the cost for just one window, a phone call to trina or to Bontragers could be a huge savings.
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bevans6
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« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2010, 08:14:55 AM »

Cody, the only people I've heard of that have exactly fitting drop in replacements that fit in the OEM frames are Peninsula.  Ar eyou saying that RV Surplus has them too, to be an exact OEM fit in an MCI MC-5C?

For my application, the windows must fit  in the OEM frames and retain the emergency exit capability with the exit bar.

Brian
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« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2010, 08:22:27 AM »

Here is an email I received from Jeff at Penninsula:

Thank you for taking the time to e-mail us today regarding the windows that
you are considering for your Prevost conversion.  In order to accommodate
the curvature of the bus, the windows for the coach are built in two
separate panels.  For this application, the original frame is used.
Step 1:  The existing windows should be removed from the coach.
Step 2:  The original glass should be removed from the window frame.
Step 3:  The frames should be shipped to Peninsula Glass for new window
installation.
We take the original frame and build two complete window assemblies that
will mount within the original frame.  The upper half will be a non-opening
fixed panel.  The lower window will become a half-slider with operable
screen.  I have attached some photos for you review.  There should be two
different sizes of side windows.  We will call them the "large" and "small"
for the ease of discussion.
Large Side Window Insert
$556.00 ea. (Series 1800 dual pane, t-slider, black anodized aluminum frame,
solar cool bronze tint or dark grey limo)
 
Small Side Window Insert
$454.00 ea. (Series 1800 dual pane, t-slider, black anodized aluminum frame,
solar cool bronze tint or dark grey limo)
 
 
Personally I think he is mistaken on the bus I have and thinks it's an XL because I have little to no curvature in my windows! It's a ceiling vent for me before I spend that on windows with screens!
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Ace Rossi
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cody
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« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2010, 08:31:38 AM »

Brian I didn't know you wanted to retain the original exit apparatus for the stock windows, my sliders open up about 2 ft wide so if needed I could enter or exit with very little problem, I just went out to the bus and slid one of them open, the opening is 25 inches high and 24 inches wide, that size would allow me to exit with little difficulty, I don't know what your window sizes are but mine are roughly 52 wide by 28 high.
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bevans6
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« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2010, 08:44:27 AM »

Hey Cody, it's that emergency exit thing plus I want to retain the OEM appearance of the bus.  I prefer it to the closed in side look of many conversions.  thanks for your advice,though, I appreciate it.

brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
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Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
cody
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« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2010, 08:52:33 AM »

Just trying to help lol, when your as poverty stricken as I am, you do a lot of research in order to make the nickles go as far as they can, it used to be pennies but with inflation it's nickles now.  With the economic collapse of the S&S industry it's been a boost to those of us looking for new surplus items for our buses, the supply is drying up tho and getting harder to find.
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bevans6
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« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2010, 09:31:14 AM »

Canadian Mint is going to do away with pennies shortly, smallest coin will be a nickle.  the question is round up or round down on making change?  High transaction business, that is worth a lot!

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2010, 10:17:07 AM »

I have the four windows installed that cody mentioned. They have worked out very well for our application...........broke!

They are made by Hehr, and the quality is fantastic!.. Cool

FWIW,

Paul
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« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2010, 10:18:19 AM »

First bus converted by PO has stock insulation.  Never again.  Second bus has every nook and cranny insulated. Good insulation is one of if not the most import things to add to a bus to make it more comfortable.  Good insulation will let you have less heating and AC and cost you less in the long run.  Doing everything you can to insulate is the best time and money you will spend on a conversion.

Good luck
Don 4107
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cody
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« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2010, 10:28:29 AM »

Don is right, insulation is critical to the comfort level in a bus, many factors contribute to make the bus comfortable, I'd prefer duel pane windows over single pane because of the noise reduction and limited heat transfer of the duel pane, I haven't changed out my front side windows on my iggle yet, thats the window with the angled front and the difference between them is incredible, in cold weather the front window is covered in condensation that runs down the glass and pools at the bottom, if the weather is cold enough I've actually seen it freeze, the duel pane is warmer with no condensation at all. ceiling and wall insulation is another important component of a quiet, warm or cooler bus, many factors enter into play and when the magic formula is met it cuts the cost or effort of climate control down to a manageable level, makes it more enjoyable for everyone.
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BG6
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« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2010, 11:52:46 AM »

I have yet to see a post which reads "Damn, I wish I had bought single-pane windows!"  Grin

The real questions are how many nights you will sleep in the coach.  Divide the added cost by that number, then decide if a better night's sleep is worth the cost.

The vast majority of your heat transfer is through the windows.  Your walls and ceiling are insulated, but that one thin pane of glass is not.

Of course, there is the alternative of putting in the cheaper, single-pane glass, then cutting hard-foam insulation to fit the inside, and Velcroing it in place at night (in reality, you will probably keep it there pretty much all of the time).
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luvrbus
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« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2010, 12:25:13 PM »

Huge difference in dual pane windows like the RV people use and thermopane like homes I found out none of the RV windows have any type gas Peninsula, Attwood, or Hehr they use a air gap, regular glass and are not sealed.
I personally think my Peninsulas are over priced and the mickey mouse screens they use are junk but for a direct replacement not much of a choice except Peninsula.   


good luck
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« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2010, 12:49:29 PM »

Huge difference in dual pane windows like the RV people use and thermopane like homes I found out none of the RV windows have any type gas Peninsula, Attwood, or Hehr they use a air gap, regular glass and are not sealed.

Coach windows need vents because your coach may run in air densities between several hundred feet below sea level (Salton Sea on a cold night) to more than 10,000 feet MSL (Donner Pass on a hot day).  You need that space between two pieces of glass to equalize.  There is still plenty of insulation (the vents are small with no crossflow, so the airspace is still dead).

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Jerry W Campbell
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« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2010, 03:38:49 PM »

Dual pane windows are great for insulation but temperature is just 1/2 the story, sound is the other half. When you park in the middle of nowhere it doesn't matter but stop at a rest area or truck stop and spend the night and you will see how much difference dual pane windows make for quieting things down. They have made the difference between sleep and no sleep.
Go ahead, spend the money
Jerry
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cody
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« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2010, 04:35:54 PM »

My front side windows are the stock single pane ones that iggle put in the bus, the windows directly behind them are the Hehr windows, on a cold day the stock ones are so full of condensation and ice you can't see out of them, the Hehr windows are absolutely clear, no moisture of any kind so they must be helping a little also they did quiet down the bus a lot, course I can still hear libby so that part isn't working as well as it could lol.
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FloridaCliff
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« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2010, 04:41:01 PM »

Dual pane windows are great for insulation but temperature is just 1/2 the story, sound is the other half. When you park in the middle of nowhere it doesn't matter but stop at a rest area or truck stop and spend the night and you will see how much difference dual pane windows make for quieting things down. They have made the difference between sleep and no sleep.
Go ahead, spend the money
Jerry


And I "Second" everthing Jerry said.....

Money well spent.....

Cliff
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« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2010, 04:47:56 PM »

I also have the stock angled single pane windows in the front on both sides. One of these days I'll replace them at a cost of around 1K, one of these days! Grin

I do agree on the value of noise reduction, let alone the fact we can open them up to get a good cross flow. If they used gas like house windows there would be a lot of failures, I think. So far we are very happy! I even like the screens! Grin
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cody
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« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2010, 04:52:04 PM »

Paul, I was very impressed with the windows I had bought, if I had found fault with them I would have brought up that when I told you about them, my biggest problem was that I couldn't get as good a deal on yours as I got on mine, course I spent a bundle there when I got mine but I did as well as I could for you, mine were 20 bucks each, but the kid that sold me mine had gone on to other things and the kid that sold me yours wasn't as charitable.
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« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2010, 04:56:34 PM »

Cody, That's OK, I thought the price was more than fair, even though they took a real long road trip before we got them! Grin

I was more than grateful to you for taking the time to get them for us. Of course that gave you a chance to plunder and pilage somemore! Roll Eyes

I agree on the quality, best buck ever spent!

I should have bought two more and squared up the front openings, and would have been done with it! My wife likes the slanted look, of course I'm the one who installs them so I said OK. Then I told her the price to have them made up, she about fainted! Grin
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cody
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« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2010, 04:59:53 PM »

Paul if I can get more in the size we need I'll grab them, I'm thinking your fronts are probably the same as mine and I'd like a couple more anyway, this time tho we'll try to find a more direct route lol.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2010, 05:15:36 PM »

Ok guys I am one of the type that like to prove things to himself I live in the prefect place the AZ desert and on my bus I have the prefect window for the little test I done.
My drivers window is a dual pane Peninsula slider with a single pane dark tint at the top I just took a reading after parking the bus for 2 hours in the western sun these reading were from the inside the bottom dual pane was 103 degrees the top dark tinted single pane was 105 degrees not much difference in the heat factor, now one of guys living in cold country do one for the cold lol  
I have 8 of the high priced Peninsula's in my bus and I don't think they are worth the price you pay fwiw



good luck
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 06:17:24 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2010, 06:14:32 PM »

Cody, If they have some grab them. I'll modify our openings to save several hundred bucks! Thanks! Cool No hurry of course, I'd like to take a break! Grin I've been making sawdust and I'm pooped! Roll Eyes
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« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2010, 06:40:34 PM »

Paul, I have some Attwood double pane that may work for you they are big 31x55 I bought those in Vegas a few months back cheap measure and let me know

good luck
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« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2010, 09:37:18 PM »

Clifford, Too big, they need to be 52" x 29", Dang! Cry

Thanks for the thought!
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« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2010, 09:06:53 AM »

Bevans6, When we bought our bus we found some expandable screens under the bed,they are about 12in. wide by 24 or 28 in. expanded, The way they work is you slide the forward  bedroom window back the screen drops into the window channel ,you expand it, slide the window back  against the  screen and you have ventilation.  The only thing that I don't like about is the screens have wooden frames.I think I saw these at Kmart.A cheap fix that works. Glen Rice


     
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« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2010, 09:49:49 AM »

They also have adjustable window screens at Lowe's, not sure for Home Depot or Menard's. Aluminum frames I do know.

Paul
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« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2010, 09:56:57 AM »

RGauto, thank you for the tip, I appreciate it.  The windows in the bedroom of my bus don't slide, stock.  Well, one slides three inches, the other is fixed.  I ordered my windows yesterday (single pane, fwiw) and we'll see what we see when we get them in 6 weeks or so.

Cheers, Brian
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Bill B /bus
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« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2010, 10:28:09 AM »

You can get RV replacement windows in dual pane a lot less money than Motion Windows, X Peninsula. I did Fleetwood windows on the first bus, a Buffalo. Took some time to find the size as each model and year is different is size but the price was right. Four windows for less than $800 including freight when Peninsula wanted $400 each plus freight.
Just a thought.

And yes dual pane for noise and condensation problems.

Bill
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« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2010, 10:35:58 AM »

Bill, that might work well if you needed RV replacement windows. but my application (and the only reason to pay the steep price, no doubt in my mind) is that I need exact OEM replacements that fit into the OEM frames.  I confess that it stung a bit spending close to $800 on two windows, but they are exactly what I need, so you either buy them or don't have them.  I'm not aware of another option (cue " did you try Bubba's custom MCI screen slider windows and doors", and me cursing...)

Brian
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« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2010, 12:53:05 PM »

Brian,

The rest of the windows are stock MCI single pane.  Third - bus has stock roof, no raise, no insulation.


Good move.  Putting double pane in that old girl would be like putting rouge on a pig.  I am not putting down your bus but you have built her for your particular climate.  If you were in any sort of distress you would have AC in the bedroom.....and you don't.  Window air would cost a couple hundred bucks.

Solve the condensate problem with the Frost King shrink film we have been talking about.  Don't imagine you do uch dead of winter camping up there either

Why is it you guys never just swing the Emergency Escape windows out and block them for insulation?  A screen could be made that stretches across the entire opening and snapped in place.  Why wouldn't that work.

John
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« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2010, 01:22:10 PM »

hey, john, that's what we have done so far and it works great - except we now bring our cat along, and she would go through those tucked in screens like nothing.  It's probably possible to work out a secure screen arrangement, but the mechanics of it are that you need to move the screen to open the window, run around outside, stick in a stick to hold it open, run back in, stick the screen down, you get the picture.  One bad storm in the middle of the night and all of a sudden that's less of a good idea too.

I'm going to be real happy with the Pen's, and  the cost already doesn't hurt, I've forgotten already...   Cheesy

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
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