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Author Topic: Wire color???  (Read 2454 times)
sweeney153
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« on: May 27, 2010, 06:07:28 PM »

Itís me again with another question.

Is there a standard for wire color for the 12 house system? Or is it what ever you want?

I know in 120 volt house wiring black is hot white is neutral. In GM vehicles black is ground.

In my 4106 on the pass side house 12 black is ground on the drivers side white is ground.

What should it be?

Thanks again for all the help.

Kevin
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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2010, 06:09:13 PM »

What it is for me is a confusing mess.  I standardized on red is hot, Black is ground for 12 volt, but I sure wish there was a standard.

Brian
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« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2010, 06:13:48 PM »

For the 12v house system I used yellow for hot and blue for ground use any color you like

good luck
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« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2010, 07:16:46 PM »

On low voltage I always use black for ground and red for hot.   AC voltage must be lightest color for common but not white if a green is present.   Remember white is not a color.   Electronics use black for ground.
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« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2010, 07:47:08 PM »

I used black and red.  Some of my 12 volt stuff came with white and black leads where the black is positive instead of ground.

Black and red seems to be the most popular.  I like somewhat of a standard so I remember down the road what I did.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2010, 07:49:41 PM »

I initially bought several colors of various gauges of wire. I wish I had just bought one color and used it for everything, and labeled everything. It would have simplified so much!

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« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2010, 07:58:31 PM »

I used black for hot white for neutral and green for ground for 120 volt. I used red in my 240 volt for second hot. With the 12 volt I used red for hot and green for ground because I have a boat load of green wire. I know there are rules but the bus is for me and if I sell I will disclose what was done.

John
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« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2010, 07:59:59 PM »

I initially bought several colors of various gauges of wire. I wish I had just bought one color and used it for everything, and labeled everything. It would have simplified so much!

Labeling is great, but wouldn't at least being able to distinguish between positive and ground at a glance be nice?  

I labeled the wiring harness for my rear lights with heat shrink labels.  I probably spent about $75 on the labeler and labels.
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« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2010, 08:42:00 PM »

I was kinda hoping there would be a standard. I guess Ill just pick one and make everything the same. Maybe I can find a camp ground so I can be "vacationing" while I'm working on it.
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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2010, 09:27:11 PM »

Yellow for hot, black for ground. Works for me! Wink
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« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2010, 09:29:23 PM »

For most vehicles I have worked on, the red is 12VDC positive, yellow is 24VDC positive, black is negative/ground.

For 120VAC & 240VAC, white is neutral, black or red is hot, green is ground.

I prefer to keep the 120/240 neutral/ground wiring separated from the chassis ground until it reaches the power panel, just to reduce random voltage spikes, etc.

Other colors are for special, like switched, or controlled.
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« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2010, 05:57:49 AM »

It's a little off topic, but when I began to restore my 1945 WLA Harley Davidson, it had been rewired - ALL in blue!  Angry  I just bought a new harness...  Grin  I've used a variety of wiring colors for the hot side so I can identify/follow different items.  I've kept grounds white.  Much of my 12V wiring has been temporary since I'm using the bus as I build.  For example, my genset is wired to start from the front and I do have a temp gauge.  I will add an electric oil pressure gauge and a voltmeter for the house bank. When I am ready to put in items in their final location, I'll re-wire the whole thing and be happy.   


Glenn
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« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2010, 07:03:37 AM »

The general standard for a single-voltage DC system:

Primary hot lead is RED, primary ground is BLACK.  Wires inside devices or subsystems (including from power switches to controlled devices) may be of any color.

Leads for additional DC voltages:

Hot lead of a DC voltage other than the primary system will be a different color, and if there is a separate ground for that voltage, the wire insulation will be the color matching the hot lead with a black stripe running the length of the insulation (that is, 24V hot may be blue, a separated 24V ground would be blue with a black stripe).

Exceptions:

Wiring harnesses may identify individual wires using any color or numbering scheme, and wires which are identified with printed labels may be any color.

Stripes of various color may be added to the hot lead for identifying specific leads, such as those from remote power sources, distribution switches, etc.


When I do DC wiring, 12 - 15VDC hot is red, 24 - 28VDC hot is blue, ground is black.  If I run other voltages (5, 6, 9, etc) each gets its own color.

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Bill B /bus
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« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2010, 09:50:42 AM »

My standard, for easy on the  memory is:
12V+ red , 12V- brown for house, as is 'brown is ground'
12V+ for heating system yellow, again brown = ground, red would be the supply to the heating system from the circuit breaker then yellow.

Bus 24V white is ground, DDEC white is ground stay with that convention. Positive is usually black on the 24V for buses.

120V AC Black = hot, white  = neutral, green = safety ground

I use a length of aluminum angle for a supply side for the circuit breakers(CB). Usually a AWG 6 from the equalizer and AWG 10 from CB to load. Each house area has its own supply and distribution terminal board for both + and -. For example kitchen terminal for lights, fantastic vent, etc. Water pump is a home run to source CB. Power for radios, Winegard antenna is house side. Gauges, clearance lights etc is bus power.

Just the way I learned to keep my life less complicated.

Bill
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« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2010, 11:57:40 AM »

In the machine tool industry.
Alternating Current (AC) - Black AC Hot, White AC Neutral, Green Ground
Direct Current (DC) - Blue DC Hot, Blue with white stripe DC ground, Green Ground
Simple and easy to tell what is what. This is how I will likely complete my project.
No extension cords for me !
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« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2010, 03:00:10 PM »

Is there a standard for wire color for the 12 house system? ...


In the US, there is no standard color scheme for low voltage (below 30 volts, nominal) wiring in a vehicle.

For battery cables, Red is usually positive and Black is usually negative, but for individual circuits it is all over the map.

I prefer the DIN/TUV standard for low voltage ground, which is light brown.  While there is nothing wrong with black, as has already been noted, it is used for hot on the high voltage side, and choosing a different ground color can avoid confusion.  For the same reason, green would be an acceptable choice for ground wires, but many vehicle manufacturers use green as a hot lead for many circuits.

In the boat world, there is actually a standard and it is set specifically to avoid confusion with high voltage circuits, which, on boats, are often run in the same chases and panels.  When a high-voltage system is present with black hot wires, then Yellow is the preferred choice for low voltage ground return leads.

...   AC voltage must be lightest color for common but not white if a green is present.   Remember white is not a color.


This is just plain incorrect and is dangerous advice.  Neutral wires, confusingly known in the code as the "grounded" conductor, must be WHITE in all cases.  The code makes no exceptions here, although wires over a certain diameter may be marked with white tape at the ends rather than continuously white. For everything we would use in a bus, they must be covered with continuous white insulation.

On molded appliance cord (as opposed to built-in wiring), also known as "zip cord," BTW, the grounded (neutral) wire must always be specially marked; most manufacturers mold a rib or ribs into the neutral for this purpose.

Safety ground, known in the code as the "grounding" conductor, MUST be either bare copper, green, or green with yellow stripe.  Again, no exceptions until you get into very large diameters, where again end-marking with green tape is permitted.

Technically, by the way, white is a color, or, more precisely, a range of colors which, for transmitted light, is characterized by a parameter known as "color temperature."  It can be argued that pure black, however, is not a color.

For the purposes of wiring standards and codes, both black and white are called colors.

-Sean
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« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2010, 03:52:02 PM »

Minor disagreement Sean, 200-6 (in my very old book) says white or natural gray.  I have seen situations where both were used in order to identify two different neutrals.  This was in a situation where a multi lamp fixture was fed from two different circuits for low level and high level lighting.
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« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2010, 04:01:38 PM »

   As was mentioned, low voltage wire colors are all over the map. Standard trailer light wiring is white for ground, brown for tail lights and yellow & green for turn signals
   I quess the most important thing is to write down the wire colors YOU use when you install them (trust me, you will forget which is which if you don't  DON"T ASK!
   Also label the wires. There are not enough different colors for all the wires you will use in your conversion.  Jack

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« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2010, 04:34:03 PM »

I built a new chassis harness for my 4104 and I ordered numbered wire from a company in Alabama. I ordered the gauge, length and number I wanted on the wire. After I ordered and received the wire I found out that I could have had anything printed on the wire, like left turn, oil pressure, or whatever. Wouldn't that have been nice? The number system works better than color for me. After I drew my diagram I realized it would require about 60 different wires for the harness. I just didn't think 60 color / stripe variations were going to be easy to follow. I think the company was Arnco but I just tried to look them up and no luck. There are other companies that will do this and at the time the cost wasn't much higher than plain colored wire.

Ken
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« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2010, 06:38:42 PM »

Minor disagreement Sean, 200-6 (in my very old book) says white or natural gray.  ...


Why, Len, you are entirely correct.  Your note sent me back to the code to look it up.  As it turns out, three continuous white stripes also qualify:

"200.6 Means of Identifying Grounded Conductors.

(A) Sizes 6 AWG or Smaller.
An insulated grounded conductor of 6 AWG or smaller shall be identified by a continuous white or gray outer finish or by three continuous white stripes on other than green insulation along its entire length. ..."

-Sean
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