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Author Topic: Does anyone mix old engine oil to burn in there diesel genset or webasto  (Read 2820 times)
Zeroclearance
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« on: June 03, 2010, 05:20:05 PM »

I have a waste engine oil heater in my shop.  However, thru the year I can collect 400 gallons of gear oil and good engine oil.  I was wondering if I install a 100 gallon aux tank I could run a 50/50 mix for my genset.    The wasteoil has been screened and filtered.   The gearoil really does give off some BTU's in the shop heater..     I called Sure Marine and they said that they have never heard of anyone running it in a Webasto.
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FloridaCliff
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« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2010, 05:37:04 PM »

Zero,

I am sure there are those that do it!

But not in my equipment! (genset)

Too little gain, if any, for the possible damage in the long term in my opinion.

Now a diesel fired heater?  Maybe, with some research......

Cliff
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Gary '79 5C
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« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2010, 05:43:46 PM »

ZeroClearance,

I would not fuel any of my diesels with the waste oil. I know its filtered and such, but knowing how ( me talking ) important clean fuel is, I simply would not. Many many on the MB diesel forum members blend filtered WO, trans fluid, into diesel fuel, but I do not like the odds.

I have used the waste oil in a home heating system, However I did know that I was demolishing the home & #2 heating system in 2 years. I utilized with no problems.

400 gals is quite a collection, you must be doing alot of wrenching work,

Best of luck with your endeavors,
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« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2010, 05:51:36 PM »

Some years ago on the large Motor Yachts Caterpillar allowed us to burn our waste lube oil in with the fresh fuel at a rate of 5%. We found that it caused more problems that it cost to properly dispose of the waste oil.

The acids in the waste oil took a toll on pumps and injectors (nozzles).  I don't know how much waste oil you generate with your engine, I have an 8V71 and change oil about every 3 years, but 7 gallons of waste oil and the roll of the dice doesn't make any sense to me.

NCbob
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« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2010, 06:05:40 PM »

We had a thread about the "cheapo" gas construction or Honda clone generator.   It would be interesting to find a old Perkins and mate a couple 24 alternators or a small genset head and see how long it would last running a 50/50 mix.   Build the cheapo diesel genset.

Most issues in the past with burning wasteoil is glycol or chlorinated solvents.   The oil that I change out of the engine could be run in your Ford or Chevy pickup.

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« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2010, 07:45:54 AM »

Back in the days before fuel was checked for the correct color, many places that had their own fuel pumps dumped their waste oil in the fuel.  From what most mechanics have told me the grit that passes through the oil filter causes premature injector wear.  I would guess that you may have the same issue in your genny or webasto.  YMMV
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« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2010, 11:16:35 AM »

Solvents are bad so you need to have confidence in your stock....can't be removed or neutralized

Acid is bad so you need to neutralize that....all crank case oil except synthetic or Bio will have acid.  Removing the water usually removes the acid cause the water is where the acid is dissolved.

Dirt is bad so you need to be able to filter down to a micron.....all crank case needs filtered

Water is really bad so it needs to be dry....all crank case has water

A Simple Centrifuge will remove almost all except solvent.  Costs $1,800 last time I checked.  So Cat allows  % and I heard that "in the day" DD allowed 10% to comply with warranty.

You can't do this to a common rail high pressure sys cause the pump won't take the increase in viscosity IN THE WINTER.

50% only works if you heat the oil before you inject nit but then it is fine if CLEAN and dry.

You can burn this for a short period and inspect for increased deposits or wear. How much is what you will save worth to you for the hassle?  I think it has been proved that this can be done with min risk to your equip.  "OR"  Just how GREEN do you want to be?

John
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« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2010, 05:01:12 PM »

There are a number of bypass filters (Gulf Coast Filter is one) that will filter to 1 micron. That should clean it up enough to mix with diesel. Test it out and send us a report!
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robertglines1
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« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2010, 05:35:19 PM »

can you treat it like the french fries guys do?
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« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2010, 08:33:13 PM »

John Ed my base stock is Mobil 1 5W50 or Mobil 0W40, Motul 300V >>  I would say that 90% is synthetic double ester oil.    The other 10% is Mobil Delvac.    No solvents are in this oil.   I think I will start looking for a smaller diesel engine for a test pig   I wouldn't run this in my Series 60 or my 20KW Kubota genset.
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JohnEd
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« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2010, 01:01:07 AM »

Zero,

I heard that ATF is and always has en synthetic.  I don't know how much truth is in that;  The part about ATF needing to survive flash high temps and run hotter than MO I pretty much know is true.  The syn doesn't tend to burn as completely as MO so you get some oil blow-by into the slobber tubes.  I thought that should serve to lubricate but it mightbuild up also.  I was led to beliueve that it wouldn't build up ifit was clean.

This should give you a little pace of mind:  filter it down to 1 micron.  Treat the oil stock with salt brine and mix gently for a "long time".  Settle and pour off the brine.  Dump a magnet in there fr iron parts.  HAVE A SAMPLE ANALYZED.  $25.  See what the chemists have to say.....acidity, paticulates, water insuspension (dryness).  Trace metal will not matter I don't think.

Even if you are putting it in a scrap D engne you want your test to generate info so you can make other choices later.  50% mo will need tobe heated.  80% clean MO and 20% pump gasoline should need no heating and there are lots doing that already......it ain't my lie my friend. Look into "mixers group" on yahoo.

I certainly want to know what you come up with.  I have a fiber optic scope that will look in the air-box and into the cylinder chamber.  Before and after at close intervals should eliminate any risk....ya think?

John
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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2010, 06:49:43 PM »

I'd be hesitant to burn it in an engine, but with some filtering, putting it through an oil burner sounds like some free heating.

Maybe premature nozzle replacement? Needs changed periodically anyway...

The filtering should take care of the pump, maybe go a little finer than stock for psychological well being?

Either way, it won't take burning much free oil to rack up some savings that more than pay for any early replacement parts in an oil burner.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

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« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2010, 08:16:07 AM »

With my experiences with webasto is that the nozzles are a high maintence part, I wouldn't do it.
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« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2010, 09:20:06 AM »

A new fuel pump for a Webasto was $385 last fall. NO used oil will go into my Webasto.
Good luck if you try it, Sam MC8
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« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2010, 11:20:33 AM »

 I'd be hesitant to burn it in an engine, but with some filtering, putting it through an oil burner sounds like some free heating.

Either way, it won't take burning much free oil to rack up some savings that more than pay for any early replacement parts in an oil burner.[/quote]

BW is right on the money.  Lots of people out there, those in the "alt fuels" group on yahoo for example, that have been plowing this earth,,,successfully... for some time.  I will make every effort to heat my home with a waste oil burning boiler in my next house.  Free home heat, free hot water, free heat to process BIO and filter WVO and (very important) heat my shop and bus barn.  Who can afford that heating bill?  Little pre filtering needed but getting it dry is important.  If you don't want to follow the "gangs" approach, and there are variant paths, you can buy a boiler that is designed to run on WMO and be done with the engineering.  Not cheap.

BW is right about the filtering not being so important.....it isn't what it used to be.  The problem(s) are many though.  They have come up with a ew way to atomize the oil......"siphon fed". Over a tube the run high pressure air that picks up the oil and atomizes it. Big hole and no clogging.  Next problem is the flame geometry and that took many a lot of experimentation.   Final: complete burn on the boiler and no ash, carbon build up.  That means frequent service.  Till they got the syphon figured out the run time between maint was measured in hours for some that considered themselves a success.  The solution is to heat that oil up to friggen hot before it gets atomized.  There are a slew of other nit picky problems with it but that is the jist of it.

I called Webasto.....they neither make or have any intention of EVER fielding a WMO burning boiler.  I guess we are on our own.  The guy that puts together that Webasto boiler mod will get some attention and make a buck.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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