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Author Topic: How to route wires for wall outlets and such?  (Read 2208 times)
belfert
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« on: August 14, 2006, 01:01:40 PM »

How do you guys run wires for 110 and 12 volt outlets in the wall?  I don't have access to my walls to run any wires because of sheet metal covering it, but I don't see how an open wall would help.  I figured out how to run the wires in my ceiling, but gotta figure out the walls.

Brian Elfert
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NCbob
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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2006, 04:14:38 PM »

Y'know what??? I'm having some of the same problems myself and I've wired boats for years! Angry  These darned buses take the walls to the edge of the world and don't leave room for the important things...like sidewall outlets! Tongue

JR Lynch and I were talking about this a while ago...his wife sez he doesn't put outlets where she needs them and my wife needs them where I can't put them.  But then women ( and watch, I'm going to catch the devil from Christy over this.....) live in this little dream world which we've designed for them where...anything is possible!  Wink

My guess is that you need to do 2 or 3 of these conversion before you finally arrive at a design where everyone's happy! Grin

LOL,

Bob
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Hartley
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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2006, 04:45:44 PM »

Most people do thier walls with 1x2 furring strips with the plywood over those.
This leaves room behind the plywood to run wires.

If you are thinking of just applying the plywood directly to the interior metal, what are you going to use as insulation between
the interior and the metal?

The only other ways would be to run all electrical on interior walls, inside cabinets and up through the floor using wiremold
to hide the wires.

Sounds like you are making more difficulties for yourself or "overthinking" a bit. I know this is your first bus but you need to see
what others have done and how they have worked through the tricky but simple things before driving yourself completely
nuts....

Like a house.... Interior walls attach to studs, between the studs and the exterior walls is insulation. space for wires is in-between...

Hmmm?Huh?? Huh
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TomC
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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2006, 04:46:44 PM »

Except for the items in the roof (3 roof airs, 2 fantastic vents, 5 halogen puck lights, TV antenna), I ran all the electric, both 120v in conduits and 12v bare wire down the lower side of the left wall so I can access the wiring along any portion of the bus.  For the 12v lighting on the right, I ran a wire race up behind the driver's seat and around above the windshield.  I like having the wiring where I can get to it.  Some of the other wiring that had to go from left to right goes through the floor to the other side and back up throught the floor.  All my 120v wiring is in light weight plastic conduit with stranded wiring to facilitate rewiring if necessary. There are times where the usefullness of an outlet or switch will out weigh the looks of trying to hide the wiring.  But then again, some feel looks and appearance is everything. I'm more along the lines of it being useful with ease of maintenence.  Good Luck, TomC
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belfert
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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2006, 05:22:32 PM »

Most people do thier walls with 1x2 furring strips with the plywood over those.
This leaves room behind the plywood to run wires.

If you are thinking of just applying the plywood directly to the interior metal, what are you going to use as insulation between
the interior and the metal?

There is spray foam insulation under the metal panels.  There are holes every so often used to put the foam in. 

I don't really want to add furring strips if I can help it.  Besides losing an inch and a half, I also ordered my custom windows already and hopefully they shipped today.  (Ordered windows in June.)  The trim rings were sized based on 3/8" plywood with a 3/16" paneling on top.

Craig Shepard (Gumpy) is going to be coming over Wednesday to look at something else so I'll ask his opinion.

I have looked at several other buses, but they already had the wiring and plywood installed.

Brian Elfert
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Clarke Echols
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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2006, 06:35:16 PM »


Get creative.  You don't have to run wiring in the walls.  You can run conduits along the roof of the
baggage bays under the floor, then up through back corners of cabinets.  Run a wiring tray or conduits
behind or in the back of cabinets if you need horizontal, but that's easy to avoid most of the time.
For galley, you can put a false wall to hold the finished backsplash if you need.

MCI runs a molding of sorts along the bottom of the wall to hide the heating/cooling system.  You
can do similar things with wiring runs.  You have fixed furniture that doesn't move.  Put outlets on
each side.  Switches can be installed in interior partitions, etc.

For marker/clearance lights, you can run 12/24-volt wire in tubing along the top of the wall at the
ceiling, then run penetrations through to the outside where the lighting unit is located.  Seal it
well, and you have no problem, yet it's easy to access for service.

Clarke
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Kristinsgrandpa
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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2006, 07:05:33 PM »

One thing that might help is using 3/8" flex (flexible metallic conduit) for the receptacles. You can notch the firring strips and cover with the panelling.

 Now 3/8" flex is limited to the no. and size, of the wires it can hold but, the NEC (don't you just love them) says that you can use the frame of the bus for your equipment ground (its supposed to be bonded at the panel) if the recptacle  box is bolted with  machine screws and nuts, riveted, or welded to the frame of the bus. (Sheet metal screws are not allowed)

All you need is a piece of wire (about 10") to fasten to the bottom of the box (its already drilled and tapped)

 This saves on ground wire and could reduce the size of the conduit needed. The bonding jumper at the panel needs to be no. 8 or larger and if my memory serves me right, it has to be copper. (no aluminum is allowed for bonding) 

Now to go a bit further:" if the panel is bolted with machine screws and nuts, riveted or welded to the framework of the bus, no bonding jumper is required".

I'm sure that if I didn't get that right someone will tell me about it, so: I'm listening.

Ed.
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Skykingrob
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2006, 08:10:18 PM »

Hey Brian
Good to see you moving forward on the bus. Now to your question. I ran 3/4"  4'X8' polyisocynurate sheets inside my existing bus walls. Then I used a knife to cut "tracts" in the foam to run 1/2" blue plastic flex conduit from Lowes/HD to the wall outlet boxes. In some cases the boxes are riveted to the steel frame supports in the side wall and in others, I riveted two 1" wide by 4" long pices of steel straping to the back of the electric box so that when I installed the 3/8" plywood, there was something to hold the box in place. One other trick was to run some of the conduit in the back/side of cabinets when possible.
I ran 1 1/2" schedule 40 PVC above the false drop ceiling for the main runs, drilled holes in the PVC where necessary and connected the blue flex to the PVC and then routed it through the foam to the wall outlet box. BTW, I ran a separate PVC chase on each side of the bus for separating 12 volt and 120 volt.
This allowed me to put boxes just about wherever wifey wanted it to be placed.

Rob
91 LeMirage XL
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H3Jim
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2006, 09:04:08 PM »

Since I kept the bus heat and air, I can run wires along the floor in those channels on both sides.  I am also making some runs / channels above the windows on each side.  They will also have indirect lighting in them.  Just an idea.
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Christyhicks
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« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2006, 05:22:58 PM »

Hold on a second while I smack Bob! Wink ha ha, just kidding Bob, you KNOW I love you!

We learned a bit of a lesson with TempBus, because we decided to replace the camera and had to run new wire. . . twice (first camera was defective and replacement one was newer model using different wire).  We've also done some tracing out of the antenna wiring, and what did we learn, let's all chime in together.. . .. . wait. . . ready. . . GO:

TRY TO KEEP YOUR WIRING AS ACCESSIBLE AS POSSIBLE
Just kidding. . .but then again, I'm not.  I vote for conduit in the a/c duct channel, conduit in the bays, conduit in the overhead cabinets, conduit under the kicks for cabinets (or removable cabinet bottoms). . whatever it takes to keep your wiring just as doggone accessible as possible.  Don't bury it in the walls. 

Some day Shocked, some where Huh, some how Roll Eyes, you will have the pressing need to get to that one specific wire, and someone. . . it may be your wife Kiss, it may be you Tongue, but someone, will be kicking your butt if you don't. Wink

IMHO, Christy Hicks

P.S. Yeah, Bob, I know, we women are demanding, but then again, you have to admit, we're usually right.  Well, anyway, that's my story and I'M STICKING TO IT Cheesy Grin
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belfert
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« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2006, 05:41:15 PM »

Well, the Dina doesn't have any A/C ducting.  All of the A/C was run through the luggage bays which are long gone.  The return air was through a large grille at the back of the bus.

I certainly can and will run wiring in the bays and such as much as possible.  But, I do need to actually get wires up in the walls to outlets and such.

Brian Elfert
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Devin & Amy
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« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2006, 06:09:56 PM »

Brian,

Clarke said:
Get creative.  You don't have to run wiring in the walls.  You can run conduits along the roof of the
baggage bays under the floor, then up through back corners of cabinets.  Run a wiring tray or conduits
behind or in the back of cabinets if you need horizontal, but that's easy to avoid most of the time.
For galley, you can put a false wall to hold the finished backsplash if you need.

I agree with this theory. I ran 120v wiring at about 24" above the floor down the drivers side, I ran the 12v at the bottom corner of same wall. When I had to cross over i ran the wire down to the bays and across in conduit. I then put a false front on the areas i can see and under the cabinets. These fronts are removable for access later due to problems or for upgrades.

Just remember nobody walks in that space at the junction of floor and wall.

Devin
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