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Author Topic: Thinking about building a small Diesel DC powerplant  (Read 8456 times)
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« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2010, 11:34:27 PM »

Tom it's difficult to find a 500cc 3 cylinder diesel engine.   Less displacement will equal less fuel burn. 

I have been looking at the Sanden 510 A/C compressor.   I'm trying to find the HP loss that is required to turn it.

The old GM A6 sucked up 8HP.
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« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2010, 03:29:29 PM »

Well today I pulled the trigger on the New Neece/Leville 24 volt 200 amp alternator.   I should have it in my hands tomorrow.  Here are the specs.   

http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_products/specs.php?item_detail_id=25039&item=A0014964PA&product=ALTERNATOR

There are 10 each Surplus units available.   If interested you can email me for the details.   

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« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2010, 05:22:11 PM »

Kevin, that's a one-wire alternator.

If you put two of these charging one bank, they might tend to fight each other.  You should monitor the performance once you get it going to see how they do.

One way to handle this would be to let both alternators charge when the bank is fully depleted, but when the acceptance rate drops below 200 amps, shut one of them down.  Without a clutch or some other mechanism to stop it from spinning, the safe way to disconnect from the batteries would be with a make-before-break double-throw relay that can connect a load, such as a lamp or fan, to the output.  Switching which alternator gets shut down periodically will keep the workloads even.

If you are not worried about the warranty, you could try putting a relay in the field connection from the internal regulator, but from the service manual it does not look easy to get to.

Alternatively, you could break the battery bank into two parts, having each alternator charge half, then combine the outputs of the banks using high-power diodes.  You'd give up .7 of a volt on output, but for a 24-volt system that should not be a big deal.

Depending on the regulators, though, it might work fine as-is.  You might give Prestolite a call and ask for their recommendation.

-Sean
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« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2010, 07:08:17 PM »

Sean,  Thanks for the input.   The plan is for a 8 battery bank.   Per your recommendations each alternator could power up 4  batteries.    How large of a diode would you spec out.   I have a old Pioneer stereo amp that I could rob the massive heat sink from.
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« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2010, 07:29:29 PM »

The plan is for a 8 battery bank.   Per your recommendations each alternator could power up 4  batteries.    How large of a diode would you spec out.


I would first see whether it all "just works" with both alternators connected to one bank; it would be better to keep them together if possible.

That said, if you need to split them, the power rating of the diodes will depend on your max draw.  Make sure you fuse the outputs at no larger than what the diodes can support.  These things can get pretty big; for every 100 amps of current the diode will be dissipating 70 watts of power.

You'll find diodes this size, complete with heat sink, in a "battery isolator."  Those are available in ratings up to 500 amps or so.  Unfortunately, the diodes will be "backwards," intended to direct one input to two outputs rather than the other way around.

You could do surgery on an isolator, reversing the diodes, although many isolators are potted, making that difficult if not impossible.

-Sean
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« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2010, 08:17:23 PM »

Ahoy, BusFolk,

If I were doing my genset from a 'cold start, I would absolutely do a DC system as variously discussed above.  (I have a 12KW A/C plant now).
Question  ---? Will those smaller high rated alternators survive at serious continuous full load?

Enjoy   /s/   Bob 
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« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2010, 08:24:48 PM »

Bob,

Each alternator is different.  You need to check with the manufacturer to see what the rating is for continuous output, which may be different from the nameplate rating or "maximum" output.

The enemy of all alternators is heat, so keeping the cooling within specs is critical.  Alternators meant to be installed in an open engine bay with good air flow will not do well if cooped up in a generator enclosure, unless you find a way to get air to them.

This is one reason I favor the oil-cooled units.  The diodes are actually immersed in the oil and the cooling is much less variable.

FWIW.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com


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« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2010, 08:27:28 PM »

Bob, we know that a 50DN will do the job.   These new alternators are designed for emergency rescue vehicles.    If I can burn 1/2 gallon of fuel and get 11KW out of this project I will be "happy"   I would be happy with 8KW..     We will see how long these alternators last.    I won't rip out my Powertech.  It will be left installed as a backup unit.
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« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2010, 07:20:15 AM »

You might need more Horsepower then you think.  The Kubota D722-E3B is their smallest 3 cylinder Diesel.  Even though it is rated for 3,600rpm, looking at the fuel curve, 2,400rpm is the lowest (most efficient) speed to run the engine.  At that speed it puts out 11kw or 14.5hp.  If you use your 200amp L/N alternator at 28volts, that's 5600 watts of power.  If you use two that's 11,200watts, or 11.2kw.  So you see using a 11kw engine (rare is the time those alternators will be putting out full power) is not too much power.   Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2010, 08:59:34 AM »

Tom,  Thanks for posting a update with the Kubota info.   I have no problem with the Kubota's..   I have owned many in the past.  My present Powertech is Kubota powered.   The Yanmar that I have spec'd out is extremely well built.   It has a extended capacity oil pan.   It also weighs 100 pounds heavier that the Kubota.   This unit has thicker castings.

As far as power output.   I brief search on google, has shown this Yanmar driving 10KW marine gensets at full power.   The nice thing about alternators is you can throttle them back to vary the output.   Heat is a enemy, but again the Leece 4964 alternators are spec'd out for school bus and emergency applications.   

Folks right now I am at $1,080.00 this includes the NEW engine and 2 Leece 24v 200 amp alternators.

I have a call into Leece about there external regulator kit.
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« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2010, 10:49:46 AM »

...
I have a call into Leece about there external regulator kit.


I did not see that option in the specs.  If these can be externally regulated, that's definitely the way to go.  Then you can get a dual-alternator, three-stage regulator from Ample Power, Balmar, or Xantrex, and get not only the dual-alternator coordination, but better charge profiles as well.  It'll add some to your total, though.

-Sean
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« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2010, 11:18:19 AM »

A little update>   I called Leece this morning and within 2 rings the Tech answered the phone.   He knew exactly what I wanted to do.   He asked if he could call me back with part numbers and some new info for the new MCI conversion dual alternator kits..    Within 15 minutes Mark called me back with part numbers >> they are as follow..

Remote regulator kit  part# 104356 "S"  $39.98

Field plate kit   part # 100265 "S"   $23.38

He mentioned the new multi power alternator kit  4974PA   $1,332.00  Each>>   I'll pass....

With this good news I can look at the 3 stage regulator packages..
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« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2010, 01:02:54 PM »

Because of the massive heat under the hoods of new trucks, all the alternator companies have come out with heat resistant alternators capable of running in close to 200 degree heat.  Also, the best way to regulate the alternator is with a remote sensing regulator-the sensor is from the batteries, not the output from the alternator.  You get much better voltage regulation at the batteries this way.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2010, 04:18:33 PM »

can you explain what engine you are choosing for this, why, and how to determine what horsepower profile is needed?  Is the engine going to be governed to run at a certain rpm under varying load, and how?

brian
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« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2010, 06:06:53 PM »

You are going to do plans, pictures, drawings, etc. so us newbies could consider copying right? Please  Wink
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