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Author Topic: Removing posts  (Read 3426 times)
JohnEd
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« on: July 24, 2010, 08:23:12 PM »

Recently a member deleted 660 posts.  It doesn't matter that they were his posts....we all lost on that move.  Certainly there were some less than useful posts by that member of late (me too) but absolutely not all of his posts were valueless. On the contrary.  These posts were integrated into the fabric of the forum and were part of the forum.  Without those posts there is a lapse in the continuity of the topics in both questions and answers.  Much of the sense is now lost.

I suggest that no one should be able to remove more than his last few posts as a matter of forum policy.  I am clueless if that can be done by software but evidently the forum position needs to be made clear.  I have made enuf stupid mistakes and typos that I would be embarrassed if they were left to stand.  I would gladly suffer that for the good of the board if need be.  There are a lot of really stupid rules that are there to prevent things that simply do not occur to the majority.  This needs addressed and corrected if possible.

My take on this is that when you post to this forum your post and ideas become the property of the forum...if only to protect them.  More so, they become part of the fabric, as I said, and cannot be deleted without damaging the forum and it's information.  Many of us have formulated answers and questions from those 660 posts and our posts deserve to be maintained in context.

I am not complaining now....Hu Knu?

Thank you moderators for the service you provide and the patience of yours that is taxed.  Sneaky liberals, have they no shame?

Thank you

John

Any who feel the same, please chime in.  Those opposed....chime in too.
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2010, 09:09:25 PM »

The moderating team will discuss the issue of members ability to delete their posts.

Some may recall that it once was that a member could only delete their post for a few hours and after that they couldn't.  Then there was a discussion that members should be able to delete a post of their own.  As best I recall, the context of that discussion was after one of the infamous threads in which a number of good people got heated and said things they later wished they hadn't.  So it was loosened up to allow it.

But after the recent mass deletion, we will look at switching it back to time limited self deletion.

There are a lot of really stupid rules that are there to prevent things that simply do not occur to the majority.  This needs addressed and corrected if possible.


Can you be more specific?

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=26.0

Frankly, I think we have a pretty simple, plain English rule set.  It has grown some, but I would contend that each rule is there because somewhere along the line it became necessary due to problems with that on the board.  And in fact, several of the rules have been broken in the last two weeks.

But if someone has a serious issue with one of the rules, feel free to discuss it here (civilly and without accusing/blaming others).  The Moderating Team is always willing to consider suggestions to improve the forum for everyone.
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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2010, 09:27:49 PM »

Sometimes people have issues in their personal life where what they type online could cause problems. I agree wholeheartedly that the deletion of 660 posts like that was not fair to the good people here. However, I also believe that part of "free speech" on the internet at it's best would include a way to selectively remove one's own prior posts at anytime (not just within a few hours). Would it be possible to just make it harder for a person to remove their posts, so that they had to go thru several clicking steps to remove one post at a time? That would encourage anyone who was removing them strictly out of bitterence to be choicier about which ones to remove, rather then click a button and EVERYTHING is gone....
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2010, 10:12:56 PM »

Can you be more specific?

Warning on Prep H....."Do not eat this product"  now that is dumb.  But it must be needed at some level or they wouldn't waste their breath.

 It is important for us to maintain respect toward each other
 from   /www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=26.0 is pretty far out there and looks to be juvenile on the face of it.  That caution must have been warranted for it to get in there.  That's what I mean by "stupid stuff".  It just isn't anticipated as possible behavior or a realistically necessary.  Unless you have been here before.  But, not at first blush or the first go around.  I would be concerned that people would be insulted if I wrote that without justification such as "it became required" or I saw it before in the same type of forum with similar members.  But that consideration is afforded you because of who you have proven yourself to be.  

That's what I mean by "stupid stuff" Mike.  The stuff that comes up and we just shake our heads and mutter something like "now who in their right mind would have seen that one coming".  And then cap that statement off with "that's just stupid".  The need of circumstance or the situation is just well...stupid... for lack of a better word.  I am sure you have muttered that to yourself or even shared it and not felt that you had insulted an individual.  Exasperated!  Before PC kicks in and eliminates half of what you want to say, that is.  And who among us has not said that a lot of that PC stuff is really "stupid",  never thinking that there might be a [ moderator edit ] out there that would get upset  and blow the whistle to the PC police...... [ moderator edit ] The plot thickens.

OK?

John

« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 11:04:28 PM by HighTechRedneck » Logged

"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2010, 02:03:29 AM »

Happy, it's already that way and there is no single button that I know of for the average user. The posts were deleted one-by-one over a period of days, so it was clearly a conscious decision, not just a quick moment of anger. And yes, he had the right to do that under the current rules, even if it distresses the rest of us. As for reasons, I don't know, and I don't choose to speculate.

As for respect, there is an unfortunate tendency, especially on the internet, to attack the messenger rather than the message. Even if it's meant in a joking manner, there's no tonal or non-verbal tip-offs like there are face-to-face, and people can be terribly insulted by such things.

There's the separate problem of those who deliberately say things because they like stirring the pot...but fortunately this forum is more adult than most.
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Barn Owl
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2010, 02:18:46 AM »

Quote
There's the separate problem of those who deliberately say things because they like stirring the pot.

Hey, I'm offended by that! LOL     Where is the moderator when you need one?

(For those who don't get it, I have admitted to "stirring the pot" (exact words no less!) in the Off Topic sections on this board numerous times. Grin)


How about setting it up so one could go back several weeks or so and delete at will, but beyond that they need moderators approval. I want the ability to be given the chance to sleep on it and make corrections to stupid comments. I would say after several weeks you have other motives and that is where a review by the moderators would be required to proceed. Like I said on another thread, ones postings on a BB becomes public domain and your intellectual rights I would dare guess becomes that of the BB.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 02:59:07 AM by Barn Owl » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2010, 03:31:45 AM »

And yet anopther post wasting bandwith. This is a bus board lets talk buses please.
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jackhartjr
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« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2010, 04:09:40 AM »

I can not stay quiet any more.
I just don't see much here that would cause an average person to get mad.
That said...if someone does get mad and wants to be childish and take their toys and run...hate it for them!
JAck
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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2010, 05:13:07 AM »

And yet another post wasting bandwidth. This is a bus board lets talk buses please.

My thoughts exactly! This is a bus board. Most of us (I think) visit to talk about & learn about buses. I would say do away with the off topic section. Post a clear rule concerning ANY COMMENT that does not directly relate to buses. The rule would be no explanations, no warnings, no "lets be nice". Just the moderator deletes the post. Post off topic or personal attacks enough & the moderator deletes you. One of the things I like about Sean is he usually backs up his comments with enough research and data to bore me; but, I know it's not just a frivolous comment. I mean get tough! Example: ChristyHicks posts she wants to put a meat locker in the back of her new Provost and was thinking about installing a 3 phase, 5 ton freezer. I post Christy is crazy for even thinking about that and it will not work. My post should be deleted. I should be warned. Maybe three warnings I am out. Now if I post, that's a wild idea but you may want to consider using a single phase unit because the generators will be easier to find and maintain, that is helpful & I have not passed judgment on the project.

There are lots of places we can go to learn about and voice our opinions on other subjects. If some of the members here want to talk about other things, let them start their own board. It's very easy to make use of others time and resources when the costs do not come from your own pocket. I know the owners here are doing their best to keep both the magazine and the board going in the present economy. How much does the bandwidth & storage cost post & maintain off topic stuff? I don't know but I do know that we have lost a knowledgeable member that may have stayed because of non-related issues, whether posted or received.

TOM
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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2010, 07:23:07 AM »

.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 07:25:01 AM by cody » Logged
Barn Owl
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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2010, 07:50:13 AM »

Quote
And yet anopther post wasting bandwidth. This is a bus board lets talk buses please.

Where is the disconnect coming from? Don't you get that if everyone deleted everything from day one when they got upset there would not be a bus board here? Ignore that flaw and pretend everything will be fine is naive.
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L. Christley - W3EYE Amateur Extra
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« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2010, 07:52:30 AM »

Yep what Tom said! Grin
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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2010, 09:10:07 AM »

It's not about eliminating posts. I don't agree with doing that but wasting bandwith crying about it detracts from the board and takes up space on drives this trash should be deleted.
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Barn Owl
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« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2010, 12:13:26 PM »

It all sounds good, but no board can survive without multiple topics, at least not in the world we live in. It is the nature of the way things are. There has to be some self-policing to some extent because moderators don't have the time to maintain a one topic board and everyone's idea of what belongs and what doesn't will be as numerous as there are members. I am always open to examples where it has been implemented successfully though I have personally never seen it. Also shutting down half the board because you don't like something is a little too far away from the freedom of choice that many enjoy. I would say there are fewer one topics than there are those who prefer the options of several. If you don't like Off Topic then you have a choice of not going there. Why is there a feeling you need to make that choice for others?
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L. Christley - W3EYE Amateur Extra
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« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2010, 01:21:57 PM »

Just leave it the way it is, we're all adults here and if we want to read a post, we can as easily as we can skip over it, I think the moderators are doing a great job and I feel badly if some members take a break now and then but thats also our right if we choose.  Who cares if we're bashing the governator, president or the pope, we all got our opinions and they are all different, so what, if somebody as shy and innocent as I am can survive here then so can you all.  I even have friends that drive MCI's and even (gasp) GM's, so what, I realize that their arn't enough iggles to go around so we have to be tolerant towards the disadvantaged, there I said my piece, whatcha gonna do about it lol.
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kyle4501
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« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2010, 01:46:29 PM »

I believe there isn't any black or white, only shades of grey. So exactly who gets to decide if something isn't directly related?
Many times I have seen replies that, at first look didn't apply, but later were a huge part of the solution.

Do you think it is wise to take advice from a stranger? Sure, people can claim education, degrees & certifications. Those are easy to fake. It ain't the education that matters, it's what you do with it!

We each have our own style, the banter & beating around the bush adds color to who we are and lends credibility to (or minimizes) our opinions.

Without the humor & color, this board wouldn't be nearly as wide read or have half the members it does.

I believe it is a sad state of affairs when more emphasis is placed on words than on the actions behind them. It used to be people were encouraged to grow up & to tolerate those with differing opinions & to respect others - even if they were wrong. Now it seems people are being taught to be offended if someone doesn't agree with them.
Respect is not a birth right, it is something you earn.

Cody, well said.  Grin
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 09:10:31 AM by kyle4501 » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2010, 02:04:27 PM »

Well, there you have it from Cody, always to voice of tolerance and compromise.  Generally, I would agree that things are pretty good as they are.  Certainly there are comments that violate the mission of the board, but the members do a pretty good job of staying in bounds.  The moderators seem to jump in when that fails.  Perfect?  No, but good enough for bus work.  

I am sorry to hear about Dallas.  He is a wealth of information and knowledge.  I do not know what provoked his action.  I do know that sometimes members follow up their online disputes with nasty emails.  Strangely enough, the ones that I have been told about dealt with mechanical issues, not Off Topic.  It's amazing what people can get hot about.  It is truly disappointing that Dallas deleted all his past posts since that would seem to imply that he blamed everyone for whatever the issue was.  So, I would say that there should be a time limit on the ability to do that without a moderator's help.  Maybe something like a couple of weeks after the topic becomes dormant.

By the way, have you ever tried cooking without stirring the pot?

I believe there isn't any black or white, only shades of grey.

I can see that leading to all sorts of wiring problems!
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« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2010, 03:10:29 PM »

I am sorry to hear about Dallas.  He is a wealth of information and knowledge.  I do not know what provoked his action.

One of his last posts mentioned a name as to why he would not post anything about engines.  That's all I remember.

I too am sorry to see Dallas go.  I thought he had some very good answers and analysis that was backed up by wrench turning experience.  The best kind of experience.

Come back, Dallas, you have many friends here.
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« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2010, 03:42:54 PM »

I think I am on this board probably more than anybody. You never see my green light off. I have anywhere from one to three computers on it at all times depending where I am. One of the things I like is the comradery about buses. I feel everyone here is my cyber friend. All topics posted should be locked in. I don't care if good or bad information. The bad information is what brings out the right information. I have had crazy ideas and someone has thought the same as me. It does not take long before someone steps in and corrects it or adds to it to come up with a good answer. So even the bad is good here. At the same time If you see a post that does not seem right on what you think is on topic DON'T OPEN IT. Please do not waist your 5 minutes reading about something that totally takes your mind off of your bus. God forbid you loose your train of thought. I also know I have lots of friends and they come over and help me with my bus or car and as you could imagine we sometimes bring up something stupid while we are work. I have never had someone get mad and go home with their tools. This is more than just a place to stop by every couple of days and be able to build your dream bus. It is about having people here to help when you need it. If you ask a question and your answer does not come in the way you want it in the same post ask again. I like the strong willed people here and that is part of what makes it fun. Every five to ten min I refresh to see what is new or who said what and if you get down to the nut and bolts of it their is just a handful that are even here with something to say. The rest are just reading hoping something is brought up that they can use. Get on about 11pm and see how slow it gets. Take away the small group that hangs out here and gets off topic a little bit or allot and you will see there is no reason to even log on. You won't have the answers when you need them or want them because they won't be here. Are you sure you want them to go to another board so they can talk while waiting on your much needed question. So if the small group that participates here (compared to the number of members on here) want to poke at their buddy or lighten the subject, I SAY LET THEM. If you don't like it don't sit here and read. Come to ask your questions only
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 03:45:14 PM by eddiepotts » Logged
Barn Owl
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« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2010, 04:03:14 PM »

Some good points in your post that I had not thought about Eddiepotts.



Quote
wasting bandwith crying about it detracts from the board and takes up space on drives

In this day and age those items are not really an issue as they were in days past. Especially storage cost, which now are almost nothing.





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L. Christley - W3EYE Amateur Extra
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« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2010, 09:07:28 PM »

EddiePotts,

You rock!

thanks,

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2010, 05:20:41 AM »

Eddiepotts has happily said about what I also feel.  I think this place is, or could be, about as close to sitting around a campfire, shooting the breeze, as it's possible to get in an on-line forum.  I've tried to contribute about things I think I know a little about, confident that if I get a little bit wrong, or a lot wrong, someone else will fill in the blanks.  I've also asked a lot of questions and value the answers and feedback.

But lately I have decided that even if I know 80% of the answer to something, I'm not going to post anymore.  If you're not perfect, or posting about something that's just an opinion and not a fact, you get stepped on.  That's fine, that's up to me to decide.  It's a plain fact of life that someone knows more than I do about everything, so I'm not an expert, just a guy who pays attention and tries to learn and share what I've learned.  I do reserve the right to change my mind later.

Brian
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« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2010, 06:21:26 AM »

I've tried to contribute about things I think I know a little about, confident that if I get a little bit wrong, or a lot wrong, someone else will fill in the blanks.  I've also asked a lot of questions and value the answers and feedback.

But lately I have decided that even if I know 80% of the answer to something, I'm not going to post anymore.  If you're not perfect, or posting about something that's just an opinion and not a fact, you get stepped on.  That's fine, that's up to me to decide.  It's a plain fact of life that someone knows more than I do about everything, so I'm not an expert, just a guy who pays attention and tries to learn and share what I've learned.  I do reserve the right to change my mind later.

Brian

And that is what I have been referring to.  I have talked to a lot of people on the phone that when I invite them to participate in the forum they express something similar.  Most folks don't mind correction of details or ommissions, but the perceived tone is usually the offensive part.  I use the word "perceived" because I am convinced that many times it wasn't intended to be a put down by the one writing it, but can be read that way.

I'm not suggesting "political correctness".  Just courtesy.  And when you post a correction or critical response to someone, try reading it first as if it were something someone else had written to see how it sounds.
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« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2010, 06:51:06 AM »

Eddiepotts has happily said about what I also feel.  I think this place is, or could be, about as close to sitting around a campfire, shooting the breeze, as it's possible to get in an on-line forum.

  I've tried to contribute about things I think I know a little about, confident that if I get a little bit wrong, or a lot wrong, someone else will fill in the blanks.  I've also asked a lot of questions and value the answers and feedback.

That is exactly the way I feel and thank you for sharing that.

But lately I have decided that even if I know 80% of the answer to something, I'm not going to post anymore.  If you're not perfect, or posting about something that's just an opinion and not a fact, you get stepped on. 

Now that is truly disapointing...to me. You are one of those that I enjoy seeing pop up in a thread.  If you have ever thought I did that please understand that you have me 180 out.  It is a campfire...of sorts.  If you feel you ave been dealt with harshly please say so and ask THAT question.  If you have you will get support from the masses and the person offending will almost certainly clairify.  Problem might be that you don't want to appear wussy about your "feelings".  So look where that has gotten many many people that carry a complete missunderstanding for years as a burden.  On the other hand, I think it would be heartening to you to see others support your position or validate your impression.  I see you doing exactly that in this post.


That's fine, that's up to me to decide.  It's a plain fact of life that someone knows more than I do about everything, so I'm not an expert, just a guy who pays attention and tries to learn and share what I've learned.  I do reserve the right to change my mind later.


I am not qualified to judge your expertise but I do know that you contribute and inspire others to do so as well.  And sometimes the question is even more important than the answer.

Brian

John
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The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2010, 06:58:11 AM »

I've tried to contribute about things I think I know a little about, confident that if I get a little bit wrong, or a lot wrong, someone else will fill in the blanks.  I've also asked a lot of questions and value the answers and feedback.

But lately I have decided that even if I know 80% of the answer to something, I'm not going to post anymore.  If you're not perfect, or posting about something that's just an opinion and not a fact, you get stepped on.  That's fine, that's up to me to decide.  It's a plain fact of life that someone knows more than I do about everything, so I'm not an expert, just a guy who pays attention and tries to learn and share what I've learned.  I do reserve the right to change my mind later.

Brian

And that is what I have been referring to.  I have talked to a lot of people on the phone that when I invite them to participate in the forum they express something similar.  Most folks don't mind correction of details or ommissions, but the perceived tone is usually the offensive part.  I use the word "perceived" because I am convinced that many times it wasn't intended to be a put down by the one writing it, but can be read that way.

I'm not suggesting "political correctness".  Just courtesy.  And when you post a correction or critical response to someone, try reading it first as if it were something someone else had written to see how it sounds.
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The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2010, 07:21:30 AM »

From HTRN:  I'm not suggesting "political correctness".  Just courtesy.  And when you post a correction or critical response to someone, try reading it first as if it were something someone else had written to see how it sounds.


Sage advice indeed.   Also consider that the poster is making a attempt at humor.  That's an often missunderstood comodity.  Or that in spite of seven reads he still doesn't see anything offensive or even off color.  Or maybe he was actually trying to be critical but in a nice sorta way.  Or....lotsa stuff.  On the other hand you might be a touch paranoid because of something the mailman said to you this morning.  POINT BEING... ask them what they meant and discuss the issue mano on mano.  Off line by PM of course.  If you are shy you can't be here and posting so try confronting the ISSUE.  Maybe you can't bear the thought of speaking directly and while I sympathize with their workload that is what moderators are for.  Ask them if "that post"  had a discorant ring to it....or whatever.  They are, bottom line, interested in your being motivated to participate.  And feeling all warm and snuggly, too. Huh Grin Kiss  (that was humor!!!!)

John
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Chaz
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« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2010, 08:43:23 AM »

I'm with Eddie, Kyle and Cody (except for that disparaging remark from Cody about GM's.  Angry  lol  Grin) and voted as such.
Chaz
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cody
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« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2010, 09:03:33 AM »

 Grin Grin Grin I'm filled with remorse (among other things lol)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 09:53:49 AM by cody » Logged
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« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2010, 09:42:30 AM »



Evening cody

I guess the reason some of us poor folks drive gms  is that the rust ate up most of the iggles.
LOL LOL 

poor gary even drives a class C because of the rust.

I hope people know that you can never pay attention to any thing that i say.


have a nice day.

uncle end 
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« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2010, 09:52:50 AM »

Ned totally off topic.. Bring it back lol Cheesy
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« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2010, 01:13:29 PM »

If it would help i could try to think of something rude, antagonistic, politically incorrect and possible libellous to say about Eagles...  but only if asked!  I mean, the quintessential American bus that originally came from Germany, got to be something in there somewhere   Grin

Brian (still contributing, to what I don't quite know, some fun I hope!).

When a thread like this degenerates to pointless jokes, you can kind of figure everyone had their crack at it!
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« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2010, 02:03:40 PM »

 Grin
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