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Author Topic: Finding a paint color - Air Force One Light Blue  (Read 6065 times)
Runcutter
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« on: August 24, 2010, 06:14:23 PM »

It looks like I can finally commit to getting the 4107 painted (a job for a new client will fund most of the projected cost).  First, soda blasting, then body work to deal with any rust areas, finally paint.

My plan is to go with light blue, single color, but then add dark blue reflective tape (scotchlite equivalent).  I've been trying to find a paint number reference, as a starting point, for the light blue on Air Force One.  I've done several internet searches, but no luck.  I don't know the brand paint that the painter will use, but I suspect anyone could match a DuPont color.  Photos don't match the color, lighting, printing, etc. generate a wide range of appearances.  I've tried to attach a picture, it's the light blue on the engine nacelles and underside of the fuselage.

Any suggestions on how to find a paint match?

Thanks.

Arthur

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Arthur Gaudet    Carrollton (Dallas area) Texas 
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 07:25:11 PM »

Arthur, The color is close to RGB 40, 150, 220. See if they can come up with the equivalent. Or just take them a photo, they will be able to match it with their spectrometer.

Paul
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 07:43:02 PM »

I don't know the exact answer, but the paint is sure to be a Federal Specification color.  Here's a link to a site that explains it and has a color palette.  There is a forum as well - maybe someone there has the answer.

http://www.colorserver.net/history/history-specification-tt-c-595-1950.htm

Steve
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Sean
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 08:07:02 PM »

First off, "Air Force One" is not a specific plane but a call sign assigned to any plane carrying POTUS.  That included a scheduled United Airlines flight when Nixon (as POTUS) was on it.

You will have better luck looking for color schemes for the Boeing VC-25A, which is the Air Force aircraft that I assume you are trying to emulate.  AFAIK, the paint colors are the same as the original VC-137 (similar to the civilian 707) for which Raymond Loewy designed the livery at the request of President Kennedy.  It is possible Loewy's office can give you the Pantones.

I don't think anyone at Boeing will give you the BAC codes.  But my understanding is you can find the chips reproduced in Dana Bell's "USAF Colors & Markings of the 1990s", a book now out of print.

The lower color is a pretty generic "powder blue," as opposed to the dark blue above which is the official US color (and easy to find).

Don't forget to polish the lower unpainted sections to a fine mirror finish Smiley

BTW, I don't think you will find it in TT-C-595, linked earlier.  It's not ready-mixed; Boeing paints the aircraft and they are delivered in livery.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2010, 08:12:06 PM »

Arthur, it is called Federal Blue on the Eagles Buses the Air Force owned that was the spec from GSA, Eagle used Imron one step not much difference in color between that and the old Greyhound blue on the Eagles



good luck
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 08:22:01 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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Sean
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2010, 08:19:45 PM »

... The color is close to RGB 40, 150, 220. ...


Paul, I think that's the top (darker) blue color.  He wants the bottom, powder blue color, which is much closer to 136 221 224 in RGB.

Arthur, it is called Federal Blue on the Eagles Buses the Air Force owned that was the spec from GSA, ...


Again, Clifford, I think that's the top color.  He wants the bottom color, like on the engine nacelles.  Much, much lighter.

-Sean
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2010, 08:29:17 PM »

Arthur, call Mike Wlison @ 541 915-3866 I saw him and his bother painting a plane with those colors


good luck
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2010, 09:04:35 PM »

Sean, You are correct. I didn't see it until I blew it up!

Mike can probably match anything you want to do, that guy has talent.

Paul
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« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2010, 07:37:54 AM »

I guess taking a set of tin snips to the area you want to duplicate and then taking the small piece of metal to Lowes to be color matched would be out of the question lol.  Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2010, 08:52:12 AM »

Okay, first off, the blue that you see is NOT the blue that they painted it.

The color you see on the bottom of AF29000 is a combination of the paint color and the light reflected from the ground. 

If you check with hobby shops, you may find a book with the paint scheme and color specs.  The underside color is given as "somewhere between sky and robin egg blue" by the guy who designed the scheme.

I would suggest a trip to a paint store.
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« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2010, 09:19:04 AM »

First off, "Air Force One" is not a specific plane but a call sign assigned to any plane carrying POTUS.  That included a scheduled United Airlines flight when Nixon (as POTUS) was on it.

Actually, when on United's aircraft or any other private aircraft, it is "Executive One".

For grins I called the 89th Air Readiness Wing (they maintain the Presidential fleet) and am awaiting a return call (maybe) on the paint numbers.

Cliff
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« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2010, 10:40:37 AM »

Since your coach will probably never be parked close to AF1, any light blue that you picked from a color palette that you liked would probably work.  Jack
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« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2010, 10:55:39 AM »

Got me thinking.....remember this coach?


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1975 GMC  P8M4905A-1160    North Central Florida

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« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2010, 10:57:30 AM »

Another angle.

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1975 GMC  P8M4905A-1160    North Central Florida

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« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2010, 07:06:42 AM »

Thanks for the direction on the paint color.  Being male, I do red, blue, yellow, green - not chartreuse, mauve, and aqua.  I needed something to bring to the paint store to match, or the ability to give them a paint number to cross-reference and get as close as possible.  I like the color on the aircraft commonly known as Air Force One (boy, didn't expect to have to go through that issue - I suspect a thread that asked for the paint chip of a VC-137 or VC-25 wouldn't have received many responses.) 

I know from experience that looking at paint chips at the store doesn't translate to the larger canvas.  We're painting the house, the first color looked good at the paint store, but when I did a large panel it was too dark.  We had to modify, and ended up using the darker for the trim, and going a couple of shades lighter for the field.

If I could, I'd also do something with the white and dark blue, with a large American flag on the fiberglas that replaced the rear window -- but a single color is much more reasonably priced.  I have some reflective tape samples, and my plan is to add a darker blue -- looks like about Royal Blue.  If that's not conspicuous enough, I may add gold reflective tape.  I want the coach to say "please don't hit me again." 

Arthur
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Arthur Gaudet    Carrollton (Dallas area) Texas 
1968 PD-4107

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« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2010, 07:14:28 AM »

Nothing like a machine gun on the roof to say, please don't hit me again, it also says, hey thats my parking space too lol.
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« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2010, 08:51:37 AM »

Quote
Nothing like a machine gun on the roof to say, please don't hit me again, it also says, hey thats my parking space too lol.

We'd need something automatic, so it would work unattended.  Phyllis and I were in NYC on a theater trip, when the phone rang.  The call was from the guy who'd just backed into the coach, in its parking space in Texas.  While it was great that he called us and admitted what happened, and he tarped the front of the coach (heavy storms coming in), and that his insurance paid for the repairs, I'd prefer not to go through it again. 

By the way, the wreck happened because he was trying to get out of someone else's way, so as to not inconvenience them.  Last month, someone I know moved over to avoid inconveniencing a pedestrian in the alley next to our house -- and sideswiped the side of her car on our retaining wall (built last year, and rebuilt in May because of the car that hit our house in April - damaging the wall, too.)  Maybe the paint scheme on the bus, and on the house painting project, should include a target? 

In either event, a simple "stop, wait, let them get out of the way" would have saved thousands of dollars in damage.  Both drivers were tired, apparently leading to recto-cranial disease. 

Arthur   
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Arthur Gaudet    Carrollton (Dallas area) Texas 
1968 PD-4107

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Sean
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« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2010, 09:27:56 AM »

...  I like the color on the aircraft commonly known as Air Force One (boy, didn't expect to have to go through that issue - I suspect a thread that asked for the paint chip of a VC-137 or VC-25 wouldn't have received many responses.)  ...


Just to be clear ...  I posted that information not as a correction, but to help you with your search.  When going through federal and military databases as well as Boeing's own records, you will not find the aircraft listed as "Air Force One", but rather as VC-25A and specifically aircraft numbers 28000 and 29000.

In an effort to help answer your question, I did a few searches myself and came much closer to getting actual answers by searching with the official designators.  That said, I was still only able to find the specs on the darker blue.

I stand corrected on the call sign issue; yes, it is only the call sign for actual Air Force operated aircraft.  That has included many aircraft other than the VC-25 and its predecessor, the VC-137.

-Sean
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« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2010, 11:32:30 AM »

Quote
7. Presidential aircraft and Presidential family aircraft:

(a) When the President is aboard a military aircraft, state the name of the military service, followed by the word “One.”

EXAMPLE-
“Air Force One.”
“Army One.”
“Marine One.”

(b) When the President is aboard a civil aircraft, state the words “Executive One.”

(c) When a member of the President's family is aboard any aircraft, if the U.S. Secret Service or the White House Staff determines it is necessary, state the words “Executive One Foxtrot.”

8. Vice Presidential aircraft:

(a) When the Vice President is aboard a military aircraft, state the name of the military service, followed by the word “Two.”

EXAMPLE-
“Air Force Two.”
“Army Two.”
“Marine Two.”

(b) When the Vice President is aboard a civil aircraft, state the words “Executive Two.”

(c) When a member of the Vice President's family is aboard any aircraft, if the U.S. Secret Service or the White House Staff determines it is necessary, state the words “Executive Two Foxtrot.”


It should be noted that any plane using these call signs usually gets priority service from traffic control:
Quote
2-1-4. OPERATIONAL PRIORITY

Provide air traffic control service to aircraft on a “first come, first served” basis as circumstances permit, except the following:

[snipped stuff about emergency traffic which comes first]

d. Expedite the movement of presidential aircraft and entourage and any rescue support aircraft as well as related control messages when traffic conditions and communications facilities permit.


Quotes from:
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/atc/atc0204.html
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/atc/atc0201.html
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« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2010, 11:43:05 AM »

For grins I called the 89th Air Readiness Wing (they maintain the Presidential fleet) and am awaiting a return call (maybe) on the paint numbers.

No returned call yet.

Probably waiting on the FBI's field visit report to my house.........Yikes!   Shocked
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« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2010, 12:07:56 PM »

You might find the federal standard colors document interesting: http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/FEDMIL/fedstd595b.pdf. Pages 43-46 (pdf page numbers) show the blues, but of course color reproduction on anything but a specially calibrated monitor is going to be less than accurate. If you do get a color number from the Air Force, the document will tell you what pigments are used to mix it. Obviously you need a paint expert to do it right.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2010, 12:15:30 PM by Nusa » Logged
RJ
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« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2010, 06:48:07 PM »

Arthur -

From the document Nusa provided, on page 46, color #35466 looks to be similar to the AF-1 robin egg blue color. 

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2010, 07:33:59 PM »

RJ  think you got it..I recognized color from Usaf over 40 yrs ago..as soon as you wrote it that name reminded me of the robin egg blue name...
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« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2010, 08:11:52 AM »

What great information -- thanks all.  I agree, the military spec, 35466 looks right.  Interestingly, when I printed it on my color laser, it (and the gloss 15450) look a lot different than on the computer screen.  It sure gets me a lot closer than all the research I'd already done. 

Cliff, see if you get a choice of federal prisons.  I hear that Danbury, Connecticut is nice.  I appreciate your taking the risk for the bus community.  I did have to deal with the FBI once, when I was Assistant General Manager of a transit system.  They were investigating one of my employees for something, I forget what.  Back then, they seemed to be nice folks -- but, I wasn't the one they were investigating (I think). 

BTW, if anyone gets a chance to visit the Air Force museum in Dayton, Ohio - it's worth at least a day.  I haven't been there in several years, but they have an extensive fleet of Presidential aircraft.  It was interesting to get on 26000, and see where they had to cut away part of a bulkhead to maneuver President Kennedy's coffin onto the aircraft.  Eisenhower's extended Bell 47 helicopter sure doesn't compare with the current helicopter fleet.  I used to go there often when I was assigned to Lima Ohio as General Manager of the transit system in the mid-1980's.  Got back there about 4-5 years ago, they've expanded and improved enormously. 

Thanks again, for all the help.

Arthur
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Arthur Gaudet    Carrollton (Dallas area) Texas 
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« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2010, 08:54:50 AM »

So I guess you've ruled out sneaking up on the plane with tin snips and then taking the piece to Lowes for them to scan with their special color scanner, they claim they can match any color lol. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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