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Author Topic: Update for Hcklbery in Spokane, need advise.  (Read 4473 times)
Don4107
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« on: August 24, 2010, 10:19:51 PM »

We removed the drive shaft and the yoke/flange from the diff.  I don't have a socket or wrench big enough to fit the nut that holds the yoke on the trans.  Appears to be about 2 3/16" or 2 1/4".  The yoke is badly damaged.  The manual for our 4107 says torque for 'companion flange nut' is 500-550.  Suggestions?

The drive shaft also broke about half of the studs, flush with the drum, that appear to hold the parking brake drum to the "drive pinion flange'.  The remaining studs are all hammered and stretched.  Wish I had an exploded view of the brake assembly.  The pix in the 4107 manual shows the flange still having the mounting holes for the drum but of course none of the other brake parts.

That's the good news.  The bad news is the drive shaft bent and chewed up the mount for the air bag.  Pushed it outboard enough that the bottom of the bag mount is rubbing the inside dual.  The airbag bottom mounting plate and the piston (GM's terminology) that sits on top of it are both missing pretty good sized chunks on the inboard edge. There are sharp edges that will take out the airbag in short order. 

Most of the bend is in the vertical tube that connects the bag mount to the beam that runs fore and aft under the diff and has the other airbag on the forward end.  The horizontal beam is distorted a little by the twisting motion of the vertical tube being hammered outboard.  I don't know if it would be more work to replace the whole beam or just fabricate a new upright/bag mount.  Probably depends on whether there is a replacement available/affordable.  Pretty big job to R&R.  I should have taken a camera along.

If we can get the yoke off and drive line replaced, we can at least get it moving. 

Don 4107





 
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Don 4107 Eastern Washington
1975 MCI 5B
1966 GM PD 4107 for sale
1968 GMC Carpenter
zubzub
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 10:42:05 PM »

does he have spring brakes?  Would save you some time if you didn't need to mess with the shaft brake.   FWIW if the shaft  brake is like the one on the '04 it's pretty easy to take apart.  Maybe this helps.

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desi arnaz
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 11:10:12 PM »

not to hi-jack the thread, but should i have a parking brake besides the airbrake? as i have none. on my 4106
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thomas f  Bethlehem n.h
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 11:31:14 PM »

Don,

That nut is 2 1/8". You'll probably need to use a 3/4" drive air wrench to remove it. Do you know anyone with a service truck and compressor that could help?

If you can get the yoke off, I can supply it, as well. I've got 3 of those transmissions, one of which has a busted case that I've kept for parts, just in case. It's got a good yoke on it.

I've got an exploded view of the parking brake and the rear axle, but the files are too large to attach here. If you'll PM your email address, I'll send them to you.

Zub; I doubt he has spring brakes as that is not an easy install on a 4106. Not enough room unless you move the chamber mounts or use Mini Max chambers, which are hard to find (I've got 2 sets if anyone needs any).

Thomas; Yes, you should have a parking brake. When you say air brake, I assume you're talking about the ICC emergency brake that's operated be a small lever to the right of the seat. It only works as long as you have air pressure.  It is not a parking brake.

Bob

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P8M4905A-1308, 8V71 w/V730
Custom Coach Conversion
Duluth, GA
wrench
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2010, 04:39:11 AM »

  "The manual for our 4107 says torque for 'companion flange nut' is 500-550.  Suggestions?"
        To remove it:
    1=    With a bottle jack, under the breaker bar, you will be able to break it loose, as long you got break on wheel.
    2=   a ratchet strap would work also if you got 2' of breaker bar.
                 I used this on wheel lug nut & it work.
                 wrench
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desi arnaz
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2010, 06:18:21 AM »

all i have is a big red button on the control panel that needs air to release, nothing else.
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thomas f  Bethlehem n.h
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2010, 07:25:30 AM »

Wrench,

The problem is they are disconnected from the diffferential, so the brakes wont help. The only thing they have to keep the nut from turning is engine compression and that ain't gonna do it.

Thomas; sounds like your bus has been converted to spring (or mini max) brakes already. That big red button is not original equipment on your 4106.

Bob
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P8M4905A-1308, 8V71 w/V730
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Duluth, GA
bevans6
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« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2010, 07:33:10 AM »

since this is a GM, couldn't you take the top off the gearbox and put it in two gears at once to lock it so that you can undo that big nut?  The interlocks are in the shifter on top of the gearbox, so with it off you could just put the dog clutches in first and third.  Just an idea, I thought that the top of the gearbox is pretty easy to get at in a GM and (not that it's the same thing) that's how I lock up race gearboxes so I can take them apart, I put them in two gears at once.

Apologies in advance if this is a dumb idea...    Cheesy

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
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« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2010, 08:30:46 AM »

Brian; In my opinion (for what ever that is worth) the 2 gears at once is a great idea.
   Much better than the shop supervisor telling me to fill the cyls. with water to remove the flywheel nut on a VW...Cable
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Sofar Sogood
1953-4104
KB7LJR
Everett, WA.
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« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2010, 08:46:48 AM »

Thinking on it a little more, depending on how the GM spicer shifter works you might be able to put it in reverse and third or fourth at the same time.  I don't think there is an interlock between the reverse shift rail and the 3/4 shift rail.  You may be able to do this with the top on the gearbox but with the shift linkage disconnected.
Edit:  I just went out and tried this on the 8844 shifter that I have in the shop, and it doesn't work on it - if it's in reverse both other rails are locked out.  Sorry...   Taking the top off will definitely work,, I just don't know how hard it is to take the top off the gearbox in your bus.  As will putting it in a gear and using the impact wrench, in all likelihood.  I was just brainstorming ideas...

Cable - the race boxes I run are all Hewlands, and all based on the VW gearbox design.  Even up to the 90's versions in F3000 cars, you look at it and squint, it's a VW box design evolution.  My own gearboxes actually use VW cases (from one or other of the air-cooled flat four vehicles, i forget which).  I put them in reverse and 4th to undo the nuts.

Brian
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 09:39:28 AM by bevans6 » Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
wildbob24
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« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2010, 08:58:10 AM »

Brian,

Hmmm.......I've never tried that with these transmissions, but it'd be worth a try.

Another option might be the 3/4" impact wrench run off of the bus's air system. Depends, I guess, on what tools are available.

Bob 
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P8M4905A-1308, 8V71 w/V730
Custom Coach Conversion
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FloridaCliff
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« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2010, 10:07:21 AM »

I put them in two gears at once.
Apologies in advance if this is a dumb idea...    Cheesy
Brian

If its works its a "Great Idea"

My favorite posts are some of the "out of the box" thinking on here.

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1975 GMC  P8M4905A-1160    North Central Florida

"There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded."
Mark Twain
Hcklbery
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« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2010, 01:16:46 PM »

Hello ALL.
An explanation as to why I haven't been on is, I think in order.
As I have said before I am set up to tap into the WIFI wireless Internet signals commonly called Hotspots. This is a great way of free Internet for fixed income travelers, ( The best way of course is the traditional pay for it method(more reliable)) My antenna is not as string as I would like but all I could afford at this time. That said to explain that the signal I am able to pick up in at the extreme range of my current configuration and so sun spots and even wind can effect my ability to maintain the connection. I had to wait until after 12 noon for the sun to orientate behind me as this puts me between my signal source and the sun which magnetically effects the signal stretching it out enough towards me to connect with it.

Layman's terms ?
I'm back !!!  Grin
for a little while.

Luke at US coach said he would send (NO CHARGE) a fully assembled unit with the trans yoke and the companion flange (DID YOU KNOW THERE WERE THOSE OF SUCH CALIBRE STILL LEFT ? (He belongs in this forum as he would fit right in as a close and dear relative.)

HOWEVER: the unit he had is wrong to my measurements and he is off today and I am having phone connection problems.
SOO the parts source has not been firmed up yet so leaving options open as of yet.
THIS IS OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING TO BE A SIMPLE SOLUTION EVENT.

DON:
THANK YOU>
Bottom of the heart thank you.
and thanks for posting an update as you did in my absence of not being able to connect up to do so for all to know. I am working on getting the loan of a small compressor (100psi) and air tools, will try to let you know.
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This is a 64 4106 4 sp shft 8v71/Appreciate ANY advice/info. A complete Novice.
Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2010, 03:19:45 PM »

Quote from: Hcklbery
Luke at US coach said he would send (NO CHARGE) a fully assembled unit with the trans yoke and the companion flange (DID YOU KNOW THERE WERE THOSE OF SUCH CALIBRE STILL LEFT ? (He belongs in this forum as he would fit right in as a close and dear relative.)

HOWEVER: the unit he had is wrong to my measurements and he is off today and I am having phone connection problems.
SOO the parts source has not been firmed up yet so leaving options open as of yet.
THIS IS OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING TO BE A SIMPLE SOLUTION EVENT.

DON:
THANK YOU>
Bottom of the heart thank you.
and thanks for posting an update as you did in my absence of not being able to connect up to do so for all to know. I am working on getting the loan of a small compressor (100psi) and air tools, will try to let you know.

Yes Luke has come to busnuts aid many times! As well as many other nuts such as Don, Jerry, and Bob, and many many more!
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
Don4107
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« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2010, 08:19:38 PM »

Elijah,

You might want to hold off on gathering the air tools.  I think I can arrange the use of a large impact and maybe even a service truck to run it.  My son works for a large farmer that has a couple.  I did some lathe work for them a while back and I think they would be happy to help.  

If not I will put together a surge tank so we can run it from my smaller compressor. I have been wanting one anyway.

The best plan would probably be to wait until we have the replacements in hand so we only need to borrow the stuff once.

If we get the service truck they also have a 1" gun so we could remove the wheels with no sweat to get a better look at and possibly repair the bent air bag support.  Next time you talk to Luke ask if he has a "piston", the part that is kinda cone shaped that sits on top of the support. That is the one that has a few chunks missing.  If we can bend the support back, we can probably make a new plate for the top of the support which is also missing some chunks.

We probably should work on getting the brake drum taken care of while we are waiting on parts.  Will see when I might be able to get back in to do that.

Don 4107
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 08:57:26 PM by Don4107 » Logged

Don 4107 Eastern Washington
1975 MCI 5B
1966 GM PD 4107 for sale
1968 GMC Carpenter
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