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Author Topic: Update for Hcklbery in Spokane, need advise.  (Read 4308 times)
rgrauto
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« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2010, 08:30:32 PM »

Why  not  put it in reverse and bump the starter, With the pull bar secured in place. HTH, Glen
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wrench
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« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2010, 05:38:43 AM »

Wrench,

The problem is they are disconnected from the diffferential, so the brakes wont help. The only thing they have to keep the nut from turning is engine compression and that ain't gonna do it.

Thomas; sounds like your bus has been converted to spring (or mini max) brakes already. That big red button is not original equipment on your 4106.

Bob
      OUPS again!!!!!!!!    I did get to second page before posting!!! = same as stated by RG.

        OUPS, I tough it was on the diff end, there should be a way to lock up the flywheel(this may have a lot of springing)? or put the breaker bar agains something & use the starter with the tranny in forward or reverse to match the unscrewing rotation of the nut.
 FWIW.               wrench
« Last Edit: August 26, 2010, 05:43:23 AM by wrench » Logged
Len Silva
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« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2010, 05:47:51 AM »

After all is said and done with this repair, I think we would all like to see a postmortem on this failure.

Was it a poor maintenance issue or parts failure?

Len
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« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2010, 06:49:21 AM »

I need some measurements on the drive shaft and also is it a flange or yoke type or a flange on one end and a yoke on the other end ,Eddie has 5 different shafts to select from 



good luck
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Hcklbery
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« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2010, 03:42:20 PM »

Len:
I purchased this bus nearly finished conversion from a guy who had it for 9 mths and drove it maybe a couple thousand miles, He bought it with apprx 32,000 miles on the rebuild which included the drive train from the son of the older gentleman who did all the work on it with the intent to travel etc but passed before he could enjoy much of it. That puts it in my hands at apprx 34,000 milies on this new drive live u-joints if indeed they were replace which I believe they were as the trans was gone thru and a new clutch inplaced. I drove it apprx 300 miles to home and took it to a Pilot truck stop shop to have the oil changed and all greased as well as a good inspection done.
I must by necessity depend on the labor quality of such means as this. Fast forward to present after apprx 800 miles and this failure occurs.
The u-joint caps appear clean of all or any residual grease if it was at all greased. I am told that the heat and centrifugal force can do this but I wonder at the lack of grease on the surrounding areas from the flinging action. I at first thought that the possibility was that forgetful installers failed to grease it at the first, but now consider the possibility that the u-joints suffered a premature metal stress failure due to incorrect parts.
I form this hypothesis on a number of factors.
1st. I am certain that after 32,000 miles if grease was never added this type of failure would of been after only a very short time, well within ten thousand miles I should think what with the load and all.
2nd. This means that grease had to of been properly used and so even if the Pilot Truck service hadn't done their job and greased it that still would not answer as the plain fact is that after proper install and initial service the U-joints are reliable to last several thousands of miles before any dryness begins to occur initiating the failure effect.
3rd. Per Luke at US Coach the drive line measurements I have provided him as measured off of this driveline are not the measurements I should be seeing if the correct driveline was installed.

This leaves the strong possibility in my mind that the incorrect parts including the u-joints were used resulting in increased friction and looseness causing catastrophic premature failure from over stress and heat tolerances.
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This is a 64 4106 4 sp shft 8v71/Appreciate ANY advice/info. A complete Novice.
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« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2010, 04:15:53 PM »

A couple of years ago, I had a  U joint fail on the drive shaft of the hockey team's MCI D3. Not as much collateral damage as on yours thankfully.

The cause was dry U joints, in spite of me greasing them regularly. I was greasing them without looking for grease oozing out of the seals at all 4 corners, just assuming it was good enough. The grease was going into some of the joints, but not all of them. Blame it on the PO's neglect. I found this out upon close examination of the failed parts.

I learned a lesson from that episode, and I hope you guys reading this learn too. Make sure you grease often and properly...

I wish Hcklbery a fast and easy recovery from his troubles.

JC

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JC
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Hcklbery
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« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2010, 05:06:35 PM »

luvrbus
The measurements off mine are not likely to be good, I think Luke is looking. the trans splice yoke is much like any passenger car or light trk differential u-joint yoke complete with center bolt and appears to be a spline shaft. The other side at the differential is a flat disk type mount (8 in dia, 8 bolt companion flange) that has a yoke for receiving the u-joint, this mounts to the outer back side of the inline brake drums flat surface.

The measurements of the shaft that came off is as follows. (tho no likely to be much of use as Luke says it is the wrong measurements for the shaft that belongs in this bus.)
Closed is about 21" open is 27 ( apprx) travel is apprx 5 5/8" with 16 splines. The space between welds on the male is 5 3/4". The dust cap is busted up and in the way of closing so interferes but may be off only by a 1/4 or so.
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This is a 64 4106 4 sp shft 8v71/Appreciate ANY advice/info. A complete Novice.
Don4107
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« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2010, 10:41:46 PM »

Long day.  Was gathering stuff to go work on your bus.  Had fire call this AM.  Got home late this evening.  High winds and tall wheat.  Bad mix.  Never saw ash blowing and drifting like snow before.  Good news no structures lost or people injured.  I'm all in.  Talk to you tomorrow.

Don 4107
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Don 4107 Eastern Washington
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Hcklbery
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« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2010, 03:11:24 PM »

I saw it on the news very hectic indeed.
I was able to get a tow over across the street and the Internet connection is at 98% signal strength so communications restored. I am only to happy to wait according to your time frame.
Eli.
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« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2010, 06:32:57 PM »

Hi, B.K. asked me to post something about what happened to us when our drive shaft fell out. I dont know if it will be a lot of help, but, this is what happened. The drive shaft fell completely out going down 285 north, in Atlanta. We were very lucky that it wasnt worse than it was. It took out the oil filter, and fell on the hwy. We had had a vibration for a long time. We had it in several shops and no one found what was causing the problem. The u joints were replaced, rear axle rebuilt, etc. Then, we were on our way to Choo Choo to let them look it over when it happened. Several cars behind us got damaged from it, but no one got hurt, thank goodness. They had to stop the traffic on the hwy to pick up the pieces. Then, we had it hauled to choo choo, and Joel found the problem. When the motor was replaced, not by him, the engine cradle support brackets were not installed, NONE were there at all. This let the cross member in front of the bumper  crack and drop down. This allowed the transmission to flex upwards and give it the extreme vibration, that led to it falling out. We pull a trailer with a vehicle on it for work. It is good that the trailer wasnt on there when it happened.  Anyhow, it all started with vibration. 
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« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2010, 06:57:35 PM »

When my drive shaft went I was having vibration too.

I thought it was the front tires because they were extremely cupped.

The vibration did not seem to make a difference with speed which kind of surprised me.

I had my drive line replaced that time and once more -- I took it out to have it balanced because I still was feeling some vibration and it had too much play in the splines.

I am now very sensitive to ANY vibration.

Melbo

HTH

YMMV
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« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2010, 07:42:48 PM »

Speed didnt matter too much with ours either. It seemed to do it more going up or down hills. Yeah, vibration, and worry of fire both worry me, as we have been through both.
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Mixed up Dina, ready for the road as of 12/25/2010
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FIRST RALLY ATTENDED: BUSSIN 2011!
Hcklbery
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« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2010, 08:03:13 PM »

Don was over (just left) he has the measurements he was needing in reference to the transmission yoke center bolt, he also took a look at the in-line brake drum and the bolts that mount the drum to the inner flange, as the bolts were damaged and he had concern that it may need to be further worked on but as it appeared that only a couple bolts I think he said three were damaged insufficient were left to hold it on secure we decided to leave it alone and just replace the bolts that we could and tighten down the others, however the airbag is damaged.
I had to move the bus across the street, because where it was the business agreed to allow me to stay until today, which was very gracious of them.  By the way if anybody wants to say thank you to them for helping out a fellow busnut the business name is Marie calendars restaurant and bakery located in Spokane Washington just North of Highway 95 at Argonne exit which is exit number 287 down on the left. Their manager's name is Dan and the phone number there is 509) 922-4123 their actual address is 2111 North Argonne Road, Spokane Valley Washington 99212.
It would be great if any Busnuts coming through Spokane Valley would remember this business as being friendly, anyway thought it was worth mentioning.
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This is a 64 4106 4 sp shft 8v71/Appreciate ANY advice/info. A complete Novice.
Hcklbery
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« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2010, 05:55:42 PM »

Mine had Vibration too but thought is was the clutch needing adjustment, NEVER would of considered the drive-line. In all my automotive experience the drive-line just never goes after only 38 thousand miles. Can't recall once that happened. Sure am gonna watch this new one like a hawk.

Thanks for all the advice everyone. sure am gonna listen close so just keep talking as much as you want to. I am very interested in hearing what anyone has to say.
YOU ALL ARE GREAT< JUST GREAT>
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Hcklbery
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« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2010, 09:46:38 AM »

There are heroes in this disparaging world,,,
YET!!!
STILL!!!
If your visiting this forum it means only one thing.
You've no further to look, for you've just stumbled upon a passel of um and it can transform you from feeling alone and despaired to a restored faith in your fellow man's capacity for the milk of human kindness.
You are;
Among Friends.

Sorry for the corny-ness but I just HAD TO say it.
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