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Author Topic: Hot Rod 2 stroke Detroit  (Read 4890 times)
phil4501
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« on: August 24, 2006, 08:36:48 AM »

I'm not selling my bus and I'm not going to repower with $eries 60 or any other 4-stroke.

I'm not trying to be practical, thrifty or build an engine that lasts 850,000 miles. If you think this is stupid, start your own post and talk about what an idiot I am, not here...

Please post what you have experience with or what you are planning on doing.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2006, 09:29:27 PM by phil4501 » Logged
TomC
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2006, 08:44:12 AM »

Talk to Don Fairchild in Bakersfield on what he has done with his 8V-71TA to get something like 500hp from it reliably.  His business is called CCT or Clean Cam Technology.  I can give you his phone number if you'd like.
I am taking my bus in a couple of weeks up to have a soft turbo (only 7-9psi compared to around 28psi boost) mainly to eliminate smoke at altitude and to have a bit more power-increase the injectors from N65 to 7G70-or 300hp to 345hp- 800lb/ft torque to 1,050lb/ft torque.  You can get 100hp a cylinder out of a 71 series-it just boils down to how well you can cool it.  Good Luck, TomC
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 01:32:06 AM by Dallas » Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Bosshosssport96
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2006, 09:13:47 AM »

Tom,you mention that Don Fairchild is able to get 500 horsepower out of his 8V71TA,what kind of cooling system does he have, is his coach a GMC?? Has he ever mention as to what he is able to get out of a 8V92??......Frank
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 06:16:13 AM by DrivingMissLazy » Logged
TomC
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2006, 04:58:15 PM »

Don has an Eagle (although not converted yet). He has said he prefers 71 series as you can't really get more out of the 92 because of its' short comings. If you'd like to talk to Don direct his number is 661-391-4520. Good Luck, TomC
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 06:20:16 AM by DrivingMissLazy » Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2006, 06:28:33 PM »

Phil,

A 71 series engine is alot better engine to try and "Hot Rod". The 71 is a dry sleeve versus the 92's that have a weak link in the O rings that seal the liners to the block. The O rings can't take running on the bubble of 200 to 210 degrees. The 92's can make some great power, BUT they are easier to overheat.

On a 71 series you can advance the cam timing, use the high compression kits, add the fuel to her (larger injectors), and play with the blower. Then you can add a turbo and really start to make some power. Grin

We have a Ford 9000 with a 8V71T and it will put all the Cummins down easy. I don't know how long she will last, But I have fun laughing at the kids at work that brag on their new computer controlled crap. I am old school and will die believing in the old Detroits. Cool

Dale
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 06:20:35 AM by DrivingMissLazy » Logged
phil4501
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2006, 06:48:57 PM »

Don Fairchild is my going to be my next call, Tom turned me on to him in a similar post about 2 months ago. I am trying to cram some more Detroit info iin my brain so he doesn't have to spoon feed me the common knowledge. He is close to me and I heard his bus is a real screamer.

I know is would be wiser to use a 8v92 for what I want to do, I don't think I can afford 800 horsepower right now. I want to build the 8v71 just cuz. I was thinkin that the 400 hp range would really be pushen the envelope. How much do you think 100 hp per cylinder costs?
aybe if I drove the coach in primer instead of paint and left off all that heavy, expensive conversion stuff...hmmm now you got me thinking.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 06:20:56 AM by DrivingMissLazy » Logged
phil4501
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2006, 07:10:08 PM »

so...let's here about this 100 horsepower per cylinder. What would be the configuration. Twin Turbo aftercooled, intercooled, double radiiator cooled, high compresseion. super advance timing, diesel chugging fire breathing, 2 stroke double throw down...Ok, Ok, I'll take one.

How come I don't have one now? There is furniture and stuff everywhere I look. Yet my bus is slow. How did this happen to me. The fact that I have a computer and a television yet my Scenicruiser is probably less than 278 hp is now embarassing.

I have seen the error of my ways and will correct this situation right away. I spent $11.00 on Scenicruiser salt and pepper shakers and still have N60's, I am so ashamed.

Edit: I am more ashamed that I mispelled "Detroit" in the title. How do I Edit the title?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 06:21:26 AM by DrivingMissLazy » Logged
TomC
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2006, 10:26:58 PM »

Phil- Detroit made an 8V-71TA with 400hp and 1,200lb/ft of torque at the close of the 2 stroke run.  Converting your engine over would involve adding the turbo, installing the big bearing blower (I'm not doing that since my boost is low), lower compression ratio pistons, and (I suggest) using an air to air intercooler.  400hp will be 80 injectors.  You can go with 90's and get 450hp.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2006, 01:33:39 AM »

so...let's here about this 100 horsepower per cylinder. What would be the configuration. Twin Turbo aftercooled, intercooled, double radiiator cooled, high compresseion. super advance timing, diesel chugging fire breathing, 2 stroke double throw down...Ok, Ok, I'll take one.

How come I don't have one now? There is furniture and stuff everywhere I look. Yet my bus is slow. How did this happen to me. The fact that I have a computer and a television yet my Scenicruiser is probably less than 278 hp is now embarassing.

I have seen the error of my ways and will correct this situation right away. I spent $11.00 on Scenicruiser salt and pepper shakers and still have N60's, I am so ashamed.

Edit: I am more ashamed that I mispelled "Detroit" in the title. How do I Edit the title?


Phil, I fixed it for you.
And I fixed a few more. LOL
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 06:25:08 AM by DrivingMissLazy » Logged
Jerry Liebler
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« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2006, 06:25:40 AM »

Mostly Tom C above has it right.  BUT there is no need to go to low compression pistons.  This is per the mechanic and shop that rebuilt my engine, Hillsboro Diesel, in Hillsboro Or.  They have,during their 35+ years working on 2 strokes, rebuilt hundreds of turbo 8V71s with the high compression pistons.  They started using the high compression pistons  to cure very hard startiing   So what you need is, the turbo and plumbing, a large bearing blower, larger injectors and cooling, cooling and more cooling.  The air to air intercooler is a very good idea for both performance and longevity. 
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120
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uncle ned
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« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2006, 07:22:49 AM »



Would love to figure out how to put an air to air intercooler on my 04  with 6v92. think it would make it run cooler with cool air going into the intake.

uncle ned
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4104's forever
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RJ
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« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2006, 07:23:51 AM »

Me thinks Phil's been watching too many "Home Improvement" re-runs - sounds like he's got a bad case of

MORE POWER - Argh, Argh, Argh  Grin   Grin   Grin   Grin





Sorry, Phil, couldn't help but tease you a little. . .   Wink
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RJ Long
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TomC
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« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2006, 07:39:19 AM »

Uncle Ned- saw exactly what you want on an 04, except he still had the original powerplant.  If you already have the 6V-92TA you have the aftercooler under the blower-but powered by the radiator, so the air will only get down to maybe 220 degrees.  Whereas an air to air will take it down to 150.  The way to do is would be to take out the aftercooler (have to block off the water lines) and convert the right side transmission access door to a swing out intercooler with electric fans.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
mdainsd
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« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2006, 07:50:54 AM »

Or with some more tinkering:



No substitue for cubic inches.
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kyle4501
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« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2006, 09:58:07 AM »

Phil, I have toyed with the idea of flipping the engine to the front (mid engine) & using a truck drivetrain & driving both rear axles.
I would re-configure the rear for storage & the what ever's needed for properly pullin a big heavy trailer. I'd have some storage beside the transmission.

Oh, and my fantasy engine is the 12V71 (the 16V71 would be a bit much  Roll Eyes ). Fuel prices won't matter cause it ain't likely I'll have time for this project since I keep dragging more 4501's home  Grin.

Marine applications get tons of power out of 8V71's, BUT they are able to dump the excess heat in that huge radiator they are floating in. So make sure you can get enough radiator in for the power you want.
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uncle ned
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« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2006, 10:22:36 AM »



tomc

would love to use that door but it has my transmission cooler. removed it from the radiator to help keep my engine from frying heads. just can't seem to find a place for the air to air cooler.

MY engine is not a ta just a hopped up 6v92 with a turbo.

uncle ned
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Lee Bradley
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« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2006, 12:42:09 PM »

Then again if you really want to hot rod a Detroit check out http://www.bandagbullet.com/bulletspecs.htm
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NJT5047
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« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2006, 07:29:13 PM »

Jerry has got the "cooling, cooling and more cooling" thing right. Building high HP 2 strokes isn't especially challenging....cooling it in the back of a bus will be. 650 HP 6V92TT are common enough in high perf marine applications...but they have a very large heat sink. 500 HP 6V92Ts are (were) common in fire apparatus. You can find used and fresh reman military (tank) 8V71Ts on Ebay...450 HP.
Wet liner engines are typically easier to cool than cast cylinders...they may have shortcomings for drag racing, but in a bus...have to weigh the benefits carefully. An 8V92T is hard to beat (in a 2 stroke) for 500 HP in stock form...still, most older buses don't have the rad area to cool such an animal. Have to reconstruct the coach with a Flexible style air scoop on top with a BIG radiator behind it. Clearly it could be done.
BTW Kyle, why not just jack up the SC and set it on a Cat 8 big truck chassis. Everything you need for mid-engine...hook up the air and maybe add an automatic and away you go...you'll need a little welding..but? I don't do details. Wink
JR
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

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« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2006, 07:48:05 PM »

Mais non, Miseur!

8V92's, intelligently managed, can be cooled,  if you also drive them right.   

Attend the "All you never wanted to know about cooling systems but were afraid to ask seminar at Arcadia in January!

Between RJ Long, Bob Sheaves and yours truly,  most of the mysteries and old wive's tales on cooling should be cleared up!

Onward and Upward

Marc Bourget
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TomC
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« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2006, 01:28:57 AM »

Just to show what cooling is needed- My first truck had the 8V-92TA with 435hp and 1265lb/ft torque.  It had a 1370 sq in 5 row copper/brass radiator that is the same size that is used for a Cat 550hp with 1850lb/ft torque.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
kyle4501
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« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2006, 05:38:57 AM »

BTW Kyle, why not just jack up the SC and set it on a Cat 8 big truck chassis. Everything you need for mid-engine...hook up the air and maybe add an automatic and away you go...you'll need a little welding..but? I don't do details. Wink
JR

That's the beauty of fantasies & bench racing, you don't need to bother with details. they just spoil the fun!!!  Grin  Grin

(BTW, that truck chassis was exactly what I was thinking of doing.... you know, a center bed room with a side asile, yadda, yadda, yadda.......)
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NewbeeMC9
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« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2006, 09:24:08 AM »

Hey kyle

Since were dreaming Roll Eyes

Fix one bus for camping and travling

By somepontoons and turn one into a houseboat.  It'd work as a canal cruiser too, don,t for get the high dive Grin
or put an awning on it, hang some hammocks in it and make it a lakehouse/cabin. Smiley

Now the other one , lift up and make a hover craft,  save on air bags and tires and still would have the air ride suspension Grin, could go almost any where, use aturbine engine and you want have to worry about the fans and radiators.   Shocked

More buses means more options and more dreaming available. Cheesy

Us single bussers will have to dream vicariously through you multibussers Grin

Couldn.t resist,  just funnin ya! Cheesy


 Cool

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It's all fun and games til someone gets hurt. Wink
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