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Author Topic: A Brill conversion at my County Fair  (Read 1804 times)
Buffalo SpaceShip
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« on: August 28, 2006, 07:33:11 AM »

These shots are nearly a month old, but I spotted this cool Brill conversion out at our Boulder County Fair... and thought I should share them.

I took my three kids and a friend of theirs out for Family Day... $10 armbands and a free rodeo. We had a blast!

Enjoy,
Brian
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Brian Brown
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Longmont, CO
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2006, 07:35:43 AM »

more
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Brian Brown
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2006, 07:37:48 AM »

last one.

Is the rear end and door OEM???
« Last Edit: August 28, 2006, 07:39:49 AM by SpaceShipBuffalo » Logged

Brian Brown
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2006, 08:30:22 AM »

From just looking at the pics I'd say probably not. But hey what do I know? BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2006, 09:31:36 AM »

Is the rear end and door OEM???

It does not follow the lines of the rest of the coach, so my vote is NOT OEM.

But, whoever did it must have done a very good job if you can't tell for sure when you were taking the picture.

Did you talk to the owner? or at least leave a card? It looks good & would be nice to hear from them on this board!

Thanks for the pics.  Grin
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I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. (R.M. Nixon)
Brill-o
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2006, 10:03:05 AM »


Hey there SSB-

Thanks so much for the great pics!

From my research, that rear end is nowhere near OEM. In fact it looks like someone grafted a Winnie rear on it.

Also, the grab handles on the front , that big disc above the front bumper, the 2 Mack bulldogs, the plate below the middle of the windshield, both side mirrors, and the front bumper is not OEM-

Plus the lower grill below the bumper is missing and the grille itself is missing, as is both the original front turn signals and their surrounds.

In my opinion, they turned what was once a nice coach into a gaudy eye-sore.  Roll Eyes


I think it's a shame, but if they like it, that's all that matters-  Smiley


Thanks again-


Cheers..

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Mind the Gap!
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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2006, 11:35:52 AM »

Brill-o:

Yup, I guess they "did it THEIR way."  Cheesy Thanks for pointing out the alterations. I haven't ever seen an Brill in person, and haven't seen too many photos online, either (other than yours). Any idea what year/ model that one might have started out as?

I too prefer the OEM look as much as possible... but sometimes it flies in the face of an RV conversion that most of us require for our busses. For example, I still bemoan that somebody put Eagle caps on my Buffalo, removing its distinctive hump and clerestory windows. But it does give us a spot to put the TV, etc.

OTOH, Mack dogs and Winnie back-ends are another story!  Grin And if I had a dime for every time I've seen an Eagle logo on the front of a GMC or MCI... I'd have at least a dollar by now!

Anyways, I'm excited to see those 80+ progress pics when you get a chance.

Brian
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Brian Brown
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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2006, 11:38:41 AM »

Well, that's one good reason for underfloor engines.


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Moof
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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2006, 05:47:22 PM »

Hey Nick,

What do you think about those twin A/C units on the top?
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Brill-o
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« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2006, 02:32:22 PM »

 
Hey there SSB-

That's a tuff one you’ve asked!  Huh

I did some more research on your request (and my curiosity) and this is how it relates:

First and foremost--This is no-way cast in stone and only my opinion from my studies.
If anyone can correct me or add to this—please do so.

IC-41’s (which this appears to be) were built from around Feb. 1947 to around the first quarter of 1954.

They factory upgraded some (not all) with silver-sides with two distinct styles-
The first has a graceful curve starting below the first side window, and going back. The second (later) style had a sharp angular point below the window, before travelling rearward.

If you look close at this one, you can see where (sadly) they painted over the silver siding and it is the (earlier) curved style. This puts it built after May of 47’.

But, this is a tricky call, because through the years, while the factory changed a few subtle outside features to distinguish the later models, many coach companies “upgraded” their early models by installing the silver-sides and changing other pieces themselves to “modernize” their older models. Some even had the silver fluting running completely around the front (non-OEM).
This can be said about the interiors, but I won’t go in to that-

Which brings us to the grille:
There were three distinct grille styles for this model-
The first was a full-width style (like mine), the second was the same, but narrower, and the third was a much smaller squarer one.

This bus has the second type-- but what they decided to do, was remove the grille and the front destination marker above it, and incorporate them into one large grille opening—changing the complete look of the front of this bus. The (former) original grille type puts it later in production.

The front bumper was changed only once through the years—from a split-type with large bumper guards on either side, to a full wrap-around style, later in production. I would think this bus could have had either.

So, this is my take on the year/style on this coach:

I believe it could have been produced anywhere from late 47’ to early 52’.

There were so few of these models produced (1375), and between the factory changes and upgrades, plus the coach companies’ refurbishing and rebuilding-- it’s hard to pin it down exactly.

For example:
The Baltimore transit Co. used these, and as they were taken out of service, their shop would just butcher the older ones to rebuild/refurbish the newer ones, until they went to the GMC coach. Many other coach companies followed suit doing this.

But even with all this in mind, I believe the owners of this bus has access to a wrecked or disabled Mack truck tractor.

Most likely, since the Mack dogs and grab handles are from a Mack, I would suspect the front bumper came from the same truck.
No Brills had a front bumper designed like that-

Also, if you look closely at the lower “grille”, you can see it was an early-style, after-market, chrome tail light cover- used to dress-up the back end of a tractor tail light assembly. Very tacky in this application….

So, most likely, all the “custom” additions came from the same truck.

One thing I should point out:
With all my pics and research of this model coach, I’ve seen very few configured in the exact same way.

If fact, I have never seen an exact same design as mine--save the one-off factory custom prototype deck-and-a-half (which mine is not) that has the same size/style side silver fluting and full grille.

This is part of what intrigues me about the ACF Co.—so many variations.
I think they were one of the most “deco-y” buses built in the forties.

As for those “wind-cheating” blocks on the roof:
I can’t speak for Nick, but I liken them akin to the bolts sticking out of Frankenstein’s neck!  Shocked


I know this was a long read, but I hope it helped some-  Smiley


Cheers..


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Mind the Gap!
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« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2006, 10:47:18 PM »

Great run-down, Brill-o! Thanks for the info.

I tried to do a Google search of Brill but turned up mostly the trolley busses they made.  But I just took a look at the recent eBay Brill conversion, and it sure looked a lot cleaner (and more stock, I'm sure) than the one that showed up at our Fair. Your info sure helps with the details.

I love these old busses.

Cheers,
Brian
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Brian Brown
4108-216 w/ V730
Longmont, CO
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