Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
October 25, 2014, 02:16:25 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an Online Subscription: It will not turn yellow, get musty, dusty, and mildewed or fade.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: NFPA 1192 Standard on Recreational Vehicles  (Read 6844 times)
Len Silva
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4086


Angle Parked in a Parallel Universe


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2010, 07:26:22 AM »

If you do not obey all the codes, your babies and grand babies will be born with no hair and no teeth.
Logged


Hand Made Gifts

Ignorance is only bliss to the ignorant.
cody
Guest

« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2010, 08:49:43 AM »

from 'da judge',  "after reviewing the scope of this thread it appears the confusion is contained within the definition of a law as opposed to an administrative rule, in a nutshell, a law requires legislative review, a passing vote and then the signature of the governing authority to be enacted, an administrative rule only requires the action of a commitee or board empowered to review and establish guidelines for the particular area in question, the duties of an administrative judge is to arbitrate disputes in how the administrative rule is defined in particular instances, a law carries penalties that can include not only monatary sanctions but also up to and including incarceration, a violation of an administrative rule can carry monatary penalties and other sanctions including stop orders but doeesn't carry the weight of law, the weight of law can come into effect in regards to gross negligence in some cases where the disregard of an administrative rule results in a violation of a criminal law but the criminal law is not a part of the administrative rule, but a separate issue that is dealt with under a separate set of rules.  Examples of administrative rules could be penalties assessed with late payments of a contractual issue, however that does not place it under the scope of a criminal issue unless the action results in the additional violation of a crinimal law. Building codes, NEC codes, etc are administrative rules and not laws, hopefully this clears up some of the issues under contention."
Logged
kyle4501
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3145


PD4501 South Carolina




Ignore
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2010, 09:13:20 AM »

What happens when the code is used to (or referenced) draft a bill that is voted into law by state legislature?

(edit to add:)
I'll bet that if you don't satisfy the administrative imposed fine or sanction you'd be in violation of a criminal or civil law. - which could result in incarceration. Seems like semantics to me. . . . Same result, just different words used to describe the type of rule that was broken.


Seems to me (& this is only my opinion) that those who hold the most contempt for the codes or laws are those with the least to loose.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 09:21:37 AM by kyle4501 » Logged

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. (R.M. Nixon)
cody
Guest

« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2010, 09:14:46 AM »

I don't know but I can find out.
Logged
rusty
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 356





Ignore
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2010, 09:21:59 AM »

Thank You for clearing that up. With what you said I think I will follow the codes very close. If I hook the ground and neutral together and hook the bus to a bad pole and kill the wife when see steps out to see what the hell is taking me so long. I will go to prison for killing her and not for not sticking to the code. But if I did what the code said I would not have killed her.

Thank You Wayne
Logged
HighTechRedneck
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2935


BCM Editor


WWW
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2010, 10:00:19 AM »

And therein is the basis of the "code compliance" viewpoint.  While it may not technically be a "law" and doesn't directly have risk of jail time, most folks regard anything that can result in the govt. issuing fines, especially a large one, as law.  And as noted by "da judge", if something was done that was not code compliant and something bad happened that could in any way be related to the non-compliant part, it can open up possibilities of criminal prosecution/punishment. 

Rusty's is a good example.  Here is another, suppose improper wiring causes your bus to catch fire while you are at one of those crowded campgrounds where your neighbor is "too close".  Miraculously you survive but a child in the flimsy S&S motorhome next to you dies when your burning bus ignites their motorhome.  Negligent homicide could apply.  Another example.  Suppose you make modifications to the air system on your bus using non DOT approved components.  Sometime in the future you have an accident and a family in a small car ahead of you gets crushed between your bus and the truck ahead of them.  If investigators notice the non DOT elements of your brake related system, vehicular homicide can come into play.

Logged
cody
Guest

« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2010, 10:06:06 AM »

Of course it's semantic's, thats why we have lawyers, to sort it all out for mortals like us. In michigan we have 14 definitions of death but to me dead is dead, in the prison system we even had policies to follow after death, if an inmate died on friday, he would wear leg irons and belly chains until such a time as a coroner was available to declare him dead, a doctor has the power to determine death in all situations except prisoners, that requires a coroner, we often had a prisoner in the freezer complete with restraints and an armed escort from friday until monday or tuesday or whenever the coroner was available to declare him officially dead, the prisoner would also be cited for not being in his cell at count time, even tho we knew he was in the freezer, with a formal count every 2 hours that amounted to a lot of major tickets issued, make perfect sence, doesnt it.
Logged
cody
Guest

« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2010, 10:07:39 AM »

Thats true mike but the code isn't law tho it can lead to a violation of law it isn't law by itself, makes perfect sence to me.
Logged
HighTechRedneck
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2935


BCM Editor


WWW
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2010, 10:36:09 AM »

Yup, but if a govt. employed individual is able to issue me a citation that leads to the govt. demanding that I turn over $500 to them, it is of little consolation to me that it is a code enabling it, not a law.  If I refuse to pay it because it isn't a law, they can still apply a lien which will impact selling the item in question, damage credit, employment applications, rent/lease applications, etc.  And that doesn't even get into the chain reaction into the criminal courts if it causes harm to others.

All that said, most people will never have a problem from it as long as they practice common sense in the work on it and use of it.  But I think it is wise for someone to know what the legally correct way is and what the possible consequences of doing it differently are so they can make an informed decision.  However, if they do it a different way and end up facing govt. enforced consequences, it won't matter whether they knew about the code or not, they will still be subject to the penalties whether under the code or under a resulting criminal charge.   Hence, I appreciate those that remind us all of the "code" way of doing things from time to time.

Logged
niles500
Niles500
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1188


ROSIE




Ignore
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2010, 11:03:55 AM »

Quite simply a "code" is the "law" codified - FWIW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_(law)
Logged

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")  

- Niles
kyle4501
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3145


PD4501 South Carolina




Ignore
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2010, 01:43:10 PM »

Quite simply a "code" is the "law" codified - FWIW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_(law)



buzz killer     Grin
Logged

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. (R.M. Nixon)
cody
Guest

« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2010, 03:44:13 PM »

My greatest disappointment in trying to explain the difference between an administrative rule and a legislative law is that I over estimated the level of comprehension.
Logged
HighTechRedneck
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2935


BCM Editor


WWW
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2010, 04:24:14 PM »

Cody, I think the main thing is that most don't care what it is technically called.  If it is govt. imposed and enforced with penalties then it is effectively "law" to the average person.  To rob Shakespeare - A law by any other name would still be painful when one is caught violating it.



Grin bus Wink
Logged
cody
Guest

« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2010, 05:09:02 PM »

.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 04:33:58 PM by cody » Logged
kyle4501
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3145


PD4501 South Carolina




Ignore
« Reply #44 on: October 28, 2010, 05:06:36 AM »

It occurs to me that someone may be having trouble with semantics & pragmatic awareness.

Legal definitions may matter when in court, but out here in the real world - it is the effect that really matters.
If we ask for an aspirin for a headache, do we really care if it made by Bayer or if it is generic?
For all except the most anal, it matters not what a 'rule' is legally classified as (law, code, ordinance, etc. ) if you must go to court to contest an alleged violation of that 'rule'. Especially if conviction involves sanctions that are imposed & enforced by big brother.




If you only know how to use a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Logged

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. (R.M. Nixon)
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!