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Author Topic: Xantrex Prosine 2.0  (Read 2266 times)
happycamperbrat
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« on: November 19, 2010, 06:55:52 PM »

Im within an inch of buying http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/inverter-chargers/prosine-2.aspx Do I have everyone's blessings or no?
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The Little GTO is a 102" wide and 40' long 1983 GMC RTS II and my name is Teresa in case I forgot to sign my post
norules
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2010, 07:05:42 PM »

Foolish move-

Your RTS 50DN Alternator is 24 volts

find a 24 volt inverter
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happycamperbrat
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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2010, 07:08:18 PM »

Okay, but you do know I have the Vanner Equaliser for 12 volts as well..... Nonetheless i dont know much of anything about electrical stuff so I will pass. Thanks!
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The Little GTO is a 102" wide and 40' long 1983 GMC RTS II and my name is Teresa in case I forgot to sign my post
Sean
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2010, 07:34:04 PM »

Teresa,

Before you even consider buying an inverter or any other major component of your electrical system, you need to first sketch out a system design and make some very basic decisions.  If you do it the other way 'round, for example by buying the inverter first, that will end up driving the design and you may not be happy with the result.

The decision to have a 24-volt or 12-volt house system is among the most basic of them all, and really needs to be made first.  There are lots of pros and cons each way, and tons of material has been written right here on the board (much of it by me).  Simply having a Vanner (or other brand) equalizer does not make the issue moot -- it merely facilitates having some 12-volt loads on a 24-volt system.  I wrote a full article on this subject a while back, which appeared in the April, 2010 issue of BCM.  You will find it on page 18.

-Sean
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happycamperbrat
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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2010, 07:39:18 PM »

Well the thing is, I already have the "stuff" to put on the bus and it is all 12 volt..... I stripped my motorhome and am reusing the things that were on it for the bus. Sure I would like to go with a 24 volt system, but it would mean I couldnt use any of the stuff I already have.....
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The Little GTO is a 102" wide and 40' long 1983 GMC RTS II and my name is Teresa in case I forgot to sign my post
buswarrior
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« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2010, 08:03:04 PM »

Sure you can!

Everything is an option.

You said you have an equalizer.
You already have a big 24 volt alternator.

12 volt loads need twice the wire size of 24 volt loads.

No reason you can't have a blend of voltages and loads, if it suits your purposes.

That's why we build our own!

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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Sean
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« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2010, 08:05:45 PM »

... Sure I would like to go with a 24 volt system, but it would mean I couldnt use any of the stuff I already have.....

Not true... that's what the equalizer is for.  It let's you run 12-volt items on a 24-volt system.

If you add an inverter, that will be the largest single load on your system, and it will far overshadow the limited demand of your existing 12-volt items.

Additionally, finding a way to charge a 12-volt house system on a 24-volt coach can easily eat away any savings you might think you are gaining.

-Sean
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happycamperbrat
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« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2010, 08:15:19 PM »

Remember too that normally my house batteries will be in my toad (because of the ev system). Also, right now I only have one roof top air conditioner. Because of where I live, I expect I will be adding more air conditioning which will be my biggest draw I think. I have been seriously thinking about the mini splits for the additional air in the future. I know it is possible to stack the inverters and believe that before this conversion is over I will be adding a couple more inverters.

The one I posted about, I can get brand new (never used and never taken out of the box) for about 1/3 off of the normal price and it had a charger in it so that was mainly why I was considering it...... but still $1000.00 is a lot of money if it wont do me any good in the long run.
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The Little GTO is a 102" wide and 40' long 1983 GMC RTS II and my name is Teresa in case I forgot to sign my post
belfert
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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2010, 04:05:43 AM »

I don't recommend the Prosine series of inverters.  Mine had a problem with the transfer relay welding itself shut causing the unit to shutdown.  Xantrex used to fix this problem for $400 flat rate.

My problem became frequent enough that I finally called Xantrex to have it fixed.  It turns out they quit doing repairs to Prosines at all.  What they had been doing was swapping units with repaired ones.  They would ship entire container loads of them to China to get repaired.  I called a bunch of Xantrex authorized repair centers and nobody would touch a Prosine because they couldn't get parts and they had no diagrams or service manuals.

I finally took my Prosine apart and was able to disassemble the relay clean up the contacts.  It works just fine now.  I am very careful now not to cause the transfer relay to activate with a heavy load on it.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2010, 04:55:36 AM »

My house system is what I think of as a hybrid 12v/24v, and it is working out really well.  It's a small bank of 4 6v golf cart type batteries, configured as two 12v batteries in series.  I tap off the center with a Vanner and that easily supplies all 12 volt needs on the bus, which include the normal interior lights, the radio, the fridge computer, the fantastic fans vents, electric seat motors, electric brake controller, etc.  I run the Samlex 3,000 watt pure sine inverter from the 24 volt side of the house battery, no other 24 volt loads other than the inverter.  I have the 24 volt house battery tied into the 24 volt bus battery with a switch and a fuse, so that the bus alternator can charge both while driving and I can run the house AC rooftop unit from the inverter while driving, powered by the alternator.  I charge the batteries with an external charger, in hindsight a combined inverter charger would have worked as well, but I wanted to be able to use and control the charger independently of the inverter (I don't quite remember why) and I also wanted independent automatic source switching.

I have the automatic switching set up so that shore power is primary - if there is shore power, neither the generator or the inverter can be connected to the house AC systems.  Next is generator, lowest priority is the inverter.  I think most people set it up so that the generator is lowest priority.  I thought it was important that all AC sources be hard-wired and automatically switched.

Edit; Teresa, you mention high AC loads and running multiple AC units with multiple inverters.  I tend to favor the multiple inverter approach, if you get ones that can truly be "stacked" it adds flexibility and redundancy.  But that makes the high current factor even more important.  Going to 24 volt on the input side of the inverter cuts the DC current in half compared to 12 volt, broadens your choices of inverter a lot, reduces the wire gauge size you need to connect them up (and if your house batteries, or some of them, are going to be in a towed car, the cable to/from and the connectors get pretty problematic if you are trying to use 12 volt and high current).  And I think it's even more important to be able to charge directly from the big bus alternator at 24 volt.

Brian
« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 05:11:22 AM by bevans6 » Logged

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norules
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« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2010, 07:51:04 AM »

IIRC you have a vanner 50 or 60 amp equalizer

That means - the BEST you will be EVER BE able to draw from the VANNER'S 12v terminal is 50 amps - so 50 amps times 12-13 volts equals only 600-650 watts of power - you CAN NOT SUPPORT A 2000 WATT 12 volt inverter at full load

BUT

If you use a 24 volt Inverter - Your RTS's 50DDN AT IDLE will support a max of about 4000 watts - and 6000 watts when the engine is running over 1000 rpms - 



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happycamperbrat
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« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2010, 08:58:50 AM »

Well I put off buying an inverter and am opting for a regular battery charger instead for right now. But when I get ready to buy I will post again and will be looking into the 24 volt. Thanks again!
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The Little GTO is a 102" wide and 40' long 1983 GMC RTS II and my name is Teresa in case I forgot to sign my post
Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2010, 09:46:21 AM »

I have 2 group 31's that are charged by the 24v alternator and the only things that are still 24v are the running lights, the starter, and the OR heater fans. The headlghts were changed to 12v but get their power though a voltage reducer.  All of the rest is 12v and i have 4 6v golf cart batteries that can be charged by either, solar panels, a 12v alternator or thru my 2000 watt Prosine inverter when i am plugged in.    Have had it for over 6 years and never had a problem so far.  I think that i can also charge them with my generator thru the inverter but i have never needed to do that. I very seldomly use the generator, it is more for backup than anything else. If i needed to i could always run the genny and plug in a battery charger hooked up to the batteries. Would have to do the starts one at a time i think, but that would be no big deal.
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happycamperbrat
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« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2010, 10:58:42 AM »

That sounds like a sweet set up Ed. I have a genny from my stripped rv. But I hope to only have to use it as back up too. Ideally I want as much solar power as I can possible get and then some by having pv fold out awnings....... ideally anyway cuz right now the cost is just too high. But I have seen panels that were hinged and when parked fold out to provide shade below as well 3x or more space for pv. As for the 12v vs 24v debate, I dont know enough to make an informed decision and am refraining at this time and instead choosing to keep it stock. My starter is 24v, my OEM lights are 12v. Many people with my bus type change the starter to 12v so the whole system is changed to 12v, but I havent done enough research or asked enough questions about this cuz Im not sure what the benefit is and only see added expense.
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