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Author Topic: Series 60 Bubbling Coolant  (Read 7051 times)
RickB
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81 MCI 9 smooth side 8V71 Allison 754




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« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2010, 01:04:56 PM »

Clifford,
Isn't he going to need all new cam bearings and main bearings at the least?
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RichardEntrekin
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« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2010, 03:57:59 PM »

Rick,

I plan on putting new cam and mains in it. Although the cam shaft bearings do not show ANY signs of undue hardship, it's a small price to pay now that I have the engine apart.
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Richard Entrekin
95 Newell, Detroit S 60
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RickB
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« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2010, 04:57:52 PM »

Coolant and bearings don't mix well Sad

Feeling bad for you richard but you seem like you have the heart and skill to get her back up and running. I would check into that cavitation possibility you;s sure hate to put this back together and have it develop a few more pin holes down the road.

It will be interseting to see how that coolant got in the top end. If it jst hitched a ride up there from the oil pan or if it came from the top and went down. Either way it's a bummer

RB
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RichardEntrekin
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« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2010, 03:43:29 AM »

While I am waiting for the head to come back from the shop, I have a lot of time to think about this situation. My fear is that I will get it all back together only to see the same problem. So I have an idea, and I would like to know what you think about it.

It is pretty clear that no 5 is the problem cyl. So put the head back on, cam back in, valve train on, rotate engine so that no 5 exhaust valves are cracked open. Make a plate to fit on no 5 exhaust manifold. The  has a threaded hole for an airline. Bolt the plate on and pressurize no 5. Pour water in the coolant system until it's level with the top of the open water pump. Look to see if the water bubbles.

What am I missing?
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Richard Entrekin
95 Newell, Detroit S 60
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luvrbus
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« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2010, 06:34:20 AM »

Richard, I would check the injector tube on #  5 if you have the copper tubes have the shop replace those with the new upgraded stainless steel tubes money well spent.
I have no idea why but #5 seems to be the problem on 90% of the series 60 engines



good luck
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RichardEntrekin
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« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2010, 12:43:34 PM »

Mystery solved !!!!

Cracked liner at the top of five. I couldn't see it from the original angle. Some time with a bright light and loupes and it was clear as day.

I was so anxious about buttoning up the engine without a known root cause.

Thanks all for your help.

Hopefully I pick up the parts tomorrow and start putting her back together.
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Richard Entrekin
95 Newell, Detroit S 60
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Huntington WV

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bevans6
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« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2010, 12:47:35 PM »

I win, what's the prize for guessing right first?   Grin  Just kidding...

On the "every cloud has a silver lining" front, at least you know what you need to fix now. 

Brian
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« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2010, 01:50:34 PM »

Now the plot thickens Richard you are going to need to find the cause liner movement is about all that will crack the liner 



good luck
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2010, 03:14:57 PM »

Richard, Cliffords observation is interesting.  I would think that when you pull the old liner, you will be able to looks for signs of a poor fit.  At the same time, be sure to inspect the liner closely for cavitation damage.  I am sure you will have some, but you should be able to see significant damage.  If it is bad, you will need to replace them all.

I would also have the head tested for cracks and flatness.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
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luvrbus
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« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2010, 03:42:40 PM »

Richard is going to have some cash in just tools working on the 60 series but experience is like Mastercard priceless lol  


good luck
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 04:22:50 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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RichardEntrekin
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« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2010, 03:45:10 PM »

The liner is proud of the head deck by .001, just like all the other liners. They range from .001 to .002.

I will look at the block sealing surface when I get it out tomorrow.

I have always had a suspicion that this may be a self inflicted gunshot wound. Why? Cause, the failure happend on the first trip after I did a coolant changeout. My thoughts are that in one of the cycles of flushing and refilling, that I got an air pocket in the engine and when it filled with coolant, a thermal shock ensued. It's just an imaginary scenario, but one that I think about.

So Clifford, what am I looking for to see what caused liner movement. Sorry, I'm a simpleton. It can't go up, the head is there. I'll look at the base when I pull it to look for signs of even sealing.
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Richard Entrekin
95 Newell, Detroit S 60
Subaru Outback toad
Huntington WV

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RichardEntrekin
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« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2010, 03:48:10 PM »

Oh yeah, and one more opinion question.

Change the cracked one? OR change them all?

Two schools of thought. One, you're in there, might as well do it all the way. Two, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Engine has 100k miles, and truthfully probably won't see another 100k in it's lifetime.
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Richard Entrekin
95 Newell, Detroit S 60
Subaru Outback toad
Huntington WV

Often wrong, but seldom in doubt
luvrbus
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« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2010, 04:56:23 PM »

Richard, when you get the bad one pulled it will give you a better idea if it has cavitation the other 5 will have it also,check the circumference of the bore on make sure it is not out of round.
I would still have the S/S injector tubes installed in the head if you have the copper tubes doesn't cost that much for better tubes


good luck
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RichardEntrekin
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« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2010, 02:03:45 AM »

Got the liner out yesterday. No cavitation at all. NONE. The seat looked pristine. No corrosion or pitting. It was consistent in depth all the way round. Dropped in a new liner, and started putting it all back together. The side of the liner with the crack cleary shows stain from from the exhaust gas and the other side is squeaky clean. There's been a lot in this thread, but early on, I commented that this may have been going on to a lesser degree for some time.

I did change the mains and con rod bearings, but I dont' think it was necessary. They didn't show any signs of damage that I could see, or I didn't know what I was looking for. Torquing the main bolts was no picnic, even with a five foot long torque wrench.

I'm racing the weather this week to get the head back on, and the coach buttoned back up.
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Richard Entrekin
95 Newell, Detroit S 60
Subaru Outback toad
Huntington WV

Often wrong, but seldom in doubt
RichardEntrekin
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« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2010, 07:08:40 PM »

Finally, got the engine all back together. Cranked at 5:17 today, not that I'm counting or anything. 1600 in parts and about 8 days labor all told on my part. Replaced the liner, main brgs, con rod brgs, and cam shaft brgs just to be safe.
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Richard Entrekin
95 Newell, Detroit S 60
Subaru Outback toad
Huntington WV

Often wrong, but seldom in doubt
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