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Author Topic: Brian's engine swap thread  (Read 3325 times)
bevans6
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« on: November 21, 2010, 11:06:32 AM »

Several people asked for pictures and a running commentary on this, so I thought I would start this thread and update it as I get things done.  So far I found the new engine - a 1980 8V71T that had a factory rebuild at some point, and hasn't been run since the rebuild.  It has the factory preserving oil still in it, it's been sealed well so I am quite hopeful that it turns out OK.

Engine as I got it, just before we loaded it in my pickup.



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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
bevans6
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« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2010, 11:17:17 AM »

I brought the engine home, truck seemed to like carrying it around, and my neighbour unloaded it for me with his forklift.  I started pulling pieces off that would not be used in the bus install.  It had an industrial twin tube oil cooler that is used to cool the fluid from a transmission or hydraulic brake, it didn't seem to have an oil filter, it had a pre-heat starting aid that sprayed diesel inside the air box under the blower and ignited it with a spark plug, which struck me as just plain scary...  I took all that off, took off the fuel filters, the hoses, the water hoses just so I could get a closer look at what I will have to change.

So far I can see that I need to change the rear engine cover/bell housing, the flywheel, all of the rear ancillaries like the power steering pump, the air compressor, the alternator drive.  Until I take the back of both engines off I won't be able to tell if the drives are there or not.  At the front I need to swap over the water housings, the water plumbing, the fuel filters (probably will install some new type ones).  The front cover where the MCI engine mount attach's is different so that has to be changed, which means taking the water pump off.   I need to renew the front seal, and I need to install the front pulleys.  The oil pan is 7" deep while the oil pan on the bus engine is 4" deep so I will probably change the oil pan.

I need to design and fabricate a side mount for the turbo and have the pipes cross over at the front.  I'll need to fabricate a new blower top for the turbo air feed, and work out an air cleaner setup.

Here is the new engine sitting in my shop.

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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
bevans6
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1980 MCI MC-5C




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« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2010, 11:24:59 AM »

I obviously am going to need to pull the engine out of the bus pretty soon, we are skirting with snow fall this time of year up here so I want to try to get that done next weekend.  Taking some advice I parked the bus with the front tires up on my run-up blocks to get it more level, so it is sitting 6" up right now, and on my concrete pad in front of the garage door to my shop.

I took the basic dimensions for the engine dolly out of the MCI MC9 shop manual and yesterday and today I welded up a dolly.  You can see that I used four pads that will support the lower rail of the engine block and oil pan.  It's made mostly of 4" square, 3/16" wall cold rolled mild steel tube, the casters are rated at 900 lbs each, and the uprights are 2" by 4" 3/16" wall mild steel tube, with an angle cut.  I used my Lincoln 170 amp Mig welder to put it together.  I think I am ready to start taking the engine out next week.

Brian
« Last Edit: November 21, 2010, 11:30:30 AM by bevans6 » Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
Fred Mc
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« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2010, 12:07:54 PM »


"it had a pre-heat starting aid that sprayed diesel inside the air box under the blower and ignited it with a spark plug, which struck me as just plain scary."

Not to suggest that you should use this or if its even applicable but I have a construction "tube" heater that works exactly like that. A pump sprays a mist of diesel thorugh a nozzle which is then ignited by a spark plug. Works lie a "hot dam" and generates a "lot" of heat".

Fred
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Bill B /bus
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« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2010, 04:30:52 PM »

Bevans

Are you going to use intercoolers? Do you have a bypass on the blower?
A friend installed an 8V71 turbo in a 96A3 (replaced a 6V92TA) with intercoolers. He needs more cooling. The original radiators are not big enough. If temps are over 75-80F he gradually goes up to the engine shutdown.
8V71 with 9G75 injectors. A little smoke until the turbo comes up. Not much at all. If you are not looking for it you will miss the smoke.

Just some info
Bill
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luvrbus
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« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2010, 04:42:44 PM »

Brian, I hope you get lucky and don't have to change the end plate to have a gear for the power steering most of those military engines don't have a gear on the right side



good luck
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bevans6
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« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2010, 06:12:50 PM »

I hope I'm lucky too, I hope to remove the turbo and manifolds tomorrow and take off the drive covers and see what I have to work with.  We will see what we see...  I also have to swap over the jake brakes and buffer switches, I forgot that part earlier.  I have a feeling this engine is going to be coming down to almost a bare block before it starts to go back together.

I'm also rebuilding at BMW 2 liter race engine this winter, I hope...  Nothing else has shown up yet, it could be a fairly quiet winter!

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
bevans6
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1980 MCI MC-5C




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« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2010, 07:54:21 AM »

Well Clifford, you were right of course - there are no accessory drives at all on the  cam gears and there is no gear where the power steering pump goes.  My presumption at this point is that I can transfer whatever is  needed from the old engine since they are both 8V71 of almost exactly the same age.

How deep I have to go to effect this transfer remains to be discovered...  My engine manual implies that I can install the left bank accessory drive retainer but there is no room so I think I will have to remove the rear engine plate to do that.  Which means removing all the gears, etc.

« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 08:10:59 AM by bevans6 » Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
luvrbus
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« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2010, 08:28:04 AM »

Different end plate Brian and if you have a gear driven alternator still more work ahead for you


good luck
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bevans6
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« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2010, 08:40:35 AM »

My manual shows that the 'carrier', if you will, for that left hand accessory drive bolts to the back plate from the rear, and there is a cover on my "new engine" backplate I have covering up the hole that you would expect to be there for the 'carrier' to stick through.  But if I do need to change the back plate would i be correct in assuming that the one on the bus engine will work?

My alternator is belt drive off the right hand cam gear location.  There is mention in the manual of a step up gear for coach alternators, but I think that is the gear driven alternator.

Brian
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 08:50:27 AM by bevans6 » Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
luvrbus
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« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2010, 08:50:20 AM »

The back plate will work when you get in there you will see the back plate has a recess for the gear buy you some wire wheels for the grinder those gaskets are a bitch to remove lol, I would still buy a complete set of gaskets if I were you DD is outrageous on the price for individual gaskets

good luck
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bevans6
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« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2010, 08:52:57 AM »

My plan is to buy the complete gasket set, and all the seals as well, and replace everything I can get at.  Certainly all the exterior oil seals, like the front seal, the crank seal behind the flywheel, the drive seal for the alternator, the water pump seals.  I'm not expecting this to be a weekend project...   Cheesy

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
luvrbus
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« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2010, 09:06:30 AM »

The front ,rear seal,waterpump seals and valve cover gaskets will not come in the gasket set Brian those are a separate item to many to choose from  139 bucks for a over haul gasket set at www.dieselpro.com the complete set is the way to go it will have the end plate gaskets it will cost you around 200 bucks


good luck
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 09:11:59 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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bevans6
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« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2010, 09:21:18 AM »

Well, I just read that to pull the back plate off I need to get the cam gears out of the way, which means I have to remove the cams and the manual says i have to remove the cylinder heads to remove the cams...  That is more work than I was expecting for sure.  Gonna have to think about this for a little bit.

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
luvrbus
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« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2010, 09:28:14 AM »

Pull the gears off the cams not that hard just matching the timing marks going back is a little of a pain 


good luck
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