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Author Topic: starter question  (Read 3724 times)
fortyniner
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« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2010, 06:31:11 PM »

I cant even get a socket on the hard one which is the lowest one close the to the block. Anyone know if the starter on a 4106 can be removed working entirely from the access panel?
-Tom P.
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Tom Phillips
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93 Range Rover
87 190e-16 Mercedes
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pipopak
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« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2010, 07:19:55 PM »

It has been installed somehow. Check if:
1) can be accessed with a straight wrench.
2) a dado on a U joint extension.
3) a crow foot wrench.
4) if removing a nearby component makes enough room to maneuver.
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Fred Mc
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« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2010, 08:40:11 PM »

I have a 4106 and have removed the starter a number of times through the access panel. (I have never done it from the bottom.)I can't remember now but either the top bolt or the bottom bolt is real difficult. I had to take a box end wrench and grind it thinner to allow it to fit in. I suppose a really good wrench like a snap-on might fit but the cheaper wrenches have more meat on them so I just ground it thinner on the grinder. I think it is a 15/26 wrench.

Once you get the starter loose tie a rope on it to hoist it out. Much easier than
getting a hernia trying to lift it out.

Isn't this fun?

Fred Mc.
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pvcces
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« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2010, 10:01:42 PM »

Tom P.

I have taken ours out both ways, and I found that a manifold wrench from Sears was just the ticket.

When I did it from the access panel, it took two of us because of the weight dragging it out over the top of the transmission shift linkage. One to hold the starter up with a rope and one to pull it out sideways.

When I did it from below, I did it by myself. What I don't remember is if I had it up on our ramps. I probably did because of the lack of clearance to crawl under the bus. They give us around 6" or 7" of lift.

Once under, I just sat up between the bulkheads just in front of the engine. I wouldn't attempt to take it out from above unless I had no choice.

For what it's worth.

Tom Caffrey
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Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
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Ketchikan, Alaska
luvrbus
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« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2010, 07:14:12 AM »

When you install the new starter rotate the solenoid  away from the engine will make it easier the next time,some folks call the wrench you use the starter or C wrench but I use the racket wrench from Gear Wrench  works good for me.


good luck
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Red Rider
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« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2010, 07:42:41 AM »

The first thingI did was to have a bowl of wheaties, ramped up the Bus and did the change out from below. Hats off to those who can get it done through the panel.
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Mike AKA; Red Rider 4106-1885
gus
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« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2010, 05:22:29 PM »

Tom,

I assume a manifold wrench is what I call a bent, C-shaped box-end wrench??
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pvcces
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« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2010, 08:56:18 PM »

Hi, Gus.

Yep, it is known as a starter or manifold wrench. They are "C" shaped and have two sizes to choose from on each wrench. I think that the 5/8" end was the one that I used, but it could be the 9/16". Twelve point is a must.

I think that Cliff will remember which size.

Good luck!

Tom Caffrey
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Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
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Ketchikan, Alaska
fortyniner
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« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2010, 07:26:50 PM »

Its that one nut at the bottom of the starter, 15/16. A 1/2 drive socket on an extension will work for the top two nuts but the lower one is partially obscured a protrusion on the block. I plan on getting a 3/8 drive 15/16 12pt socket, grind down the shoulder and using a wobble extension try to get it loose. We will see how that goes this weekend.  What a PIA, and great timing too. It could have at least failed when parked on the concrete pad instead of the dirt driveway!  When I get this thing started Im going to beat that engine without mercy Smiley

-Tom P.
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Tom Phillips
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« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2010, 12:53:28 AM »

This may be obvious but Y'm going to throw it out there in case someone doesn't know this.  If you are unbolting a starter (or anything heavy and = to the ground) loosen/remove the lower bolts/nuts first, if you do the top first the weight of the starter will pinch the lower bolts and make them harder to remove.
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dickegler
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« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2010, 05:13:01 AM »


Tom, zubzub is right on the money with his advise.  When reinstalling the starter, you might consider 12 point capscrews.  The smaller head size often helps with those close clearances.  5/8 diameter  12 point would have a 5/8  12 point head size, which leaves more room for manuvering a smaller wrench.

hope it helps

dick egler
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dick egler  atlanta, in  92 prevost/beaver conversion
fortyniner
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« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2010, 06:34:13 AM »

That 12pt bolt is a good idea. Ive also seen 12pt jetnuts which are similar. I havent yet undone any nuts yet but plan on getting the lower one out before the tops ones for sure. I may post some pictures somewhere to help future busnuts tackle this job.
-Tom P.
 
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Tom Phillips
PD4106-453
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87 Alfa Milano
93 Range Rover
87 190e-16 Mercedes
92 Jeep Comanche
luvrbus
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« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2010, 07:43:15 AM »

If somebody hasn't changed the starter bolts on your bus it should have a  5/8- 12 point bolt head on the top 


good luck
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gmbusguy1
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« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2010, 02:54:50 PM »

I would not be too quick to assume that the starter is the problem especially on a 4106. this bus has a relay that operates the starter and generator it is located in the compartment just behind the curbside rear tires it is the largest square relay about 4 inches square, located on the left side looking into the compartment you can remove the cover and using a screwdriver try and engage the contacts making sure you are in neutral and the other thing you could do is try the starter switch while checking for voltage at the starter

Chris   
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gus
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« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2010, 05:32:28 PM »

Tom,

Thanks, I've owned three or four of those for 30-40 yrs and didn't know they had that name!!
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PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
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