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Author Topic: Any ideas for fixing cold weather problems with air compressor?  (Read 5780 times)
luvrbus
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« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2010, 06:20:40 PM »

Brian, if the ice had a antifreeze color or smell you have a blown gasket or cracked head on your compressor it will be ok if it was clear ice


good luck
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« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2010, 06:42:41 PM »

Just as a reminder and not related to the air problem but are your batteries fully charged or at least on a charger? My guess would be that will be the next problem once you you your air problem sorted out!  Grin
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Ace Rossi
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« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2010, 06:49:54 PM »

However, once the air system has been moistened, what choice do you have if you want it to work in the cold?

Never mind the loss of capacity for air due to some alcohol. Not significant versus the trade off of being functional. How do you know you aren't full of water behind those auto drains in the back?

The time for keeping the air system dry is 365 days a year, not after freeze up.

Here are the things I do to keep up my air system.  What else should I be doing?  Using a 24 volt purge valve when it should have 12 volt didn't help things.

1. Service the air dryer on a regular basis.  Last done 15,00 miles ago with a new purge valve and a new dessicant cartridge.  (Also being done right now.)
2. Drain the front air tanks daily while on the road.  I replaced the old drain valves with cable pulls.  Only a tiny amount of moisture comes out.  Rear tanks have auto drains and I will need to change to manual with cable pulls.
3. Monitor operation of system to be sure compressor is bringing up air up fast enough.  Test low air alarm on a regular basis.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2010, 06:52:03 PM »

Ace, yes I have been keeping my batteries on my three stage charger.  I just installed new batteries and I'll be damned if I am going to hurt them.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2010, 07:02:56 PM »

Your air system maintenance list sounds good.

stevet903 has a really good point about the routing of your line between the compressor and the air drier.

There shouldn't be a place for water to pool in the line.

I wouldn't trust Dina in this regard, customers in the north were not their thing.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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luvrbus
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« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2010, 07:10:59 PM »

The heater in the dryer make no difference where it is 24 volts or 12 volts is not going to stop the discharge line from the compressor to the dryer from freezing up fwiw

good luck
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« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2010, 07:21:42 PM »

The heater in the dryer make no difference where it is 24 volts or 12 volts is not going to stop the discharge line from the compressor to the dryer from freezing up fwiw

The line froze right at the dryer.  A fair amount of water came out when I removed the purge valve.  (I had been heating the purge valve.)  I really don't know if the right voltage purge valve would have helped or not.

Dina uses a 90 into the dryer and one of the previous posts says that is not recommended.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2010, 07:52:32 PM »

There is nothing that says a 90 degree fitting is wrong.

If there is freezing, you may remedy this with insulation, or try changing to a less restrictive fitting, like straight-in or a 45.

But, first, we don't know if you have a line problem, until we know you don't have an air drier problem.

If you are worried, just add a couple of feet of plain foam insulation from the HomeLowesDespot to the line ahead of the drier for now. Wrap some good electric tape around it all and get on with Arcadia.

No more maintenance ideas, put away your tools, back slowly away from the coach...

happy coaching!
buswarrior

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belfert
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« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2010, 05:57:38 AM »

Brian, if the ice had a antifreeze color or smell you have a blown gasket or cracked head on your compressor it will be ok if it was clear ice

The ice was pretty black and oily.  I'm wondering if the air compressor is passing too much oil and needs some work.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
robertglines1
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« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2010, 06:04:32 AM »

probably just dark from accumulation.
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
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« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2010, 08:21:21 AM »

Ewen, I wonder about your insulation approach.  I was told that the connection between the compressor and the dryer had to be very heat resistant.  Most that I have seen are braided SS aircraft type "hose".  I wonder what the heat would do to the type of insulation you are suggesting.  Doubt that I would be a fire hazard, but I suspect the flame point of that material is pretty low.

A better solution might be to take some of the old silicone heater or radiator hose and slit it so that it could be slipped around the line.  Regular rubber hose would probably work for a while, and would have a pretty high combustion temperature.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
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« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2010, 09:36:56 AM »

Ewen, I wonder about your insulation approach.  I was told that the connection between the compressor and the dryer had to be very heat resistant.  Most that I have seen are braided SS aircraft type "hose".  I wonder what the heat would do to the type of insulation you are suggesting.  Doubt that I would be a fire hazard, but I suspect the flame point of that material is pretty low.

A better solution might be to take some of the old silicone heater or radiator hose and slit it so that it could be slipped around the line.  Regular rubber hose would probably work for a while, and would have a pretty high combustion temperature.

Jim

Jim the air dryers on most buses other than an Eagle are located far away from the compressor.
MCI = in front of the steer axle
Setra, VanHool, Prevost ( = I think Dina) = in front of drive axle.

So BW's advice seems quite safe to me!
I also remember (I think) Clifford telling someone once that Eagle never had a "standard" mounting position for an air dryer and actually placed them several different places depending on the model/options.
(I could be wrong as to who actually said it, by I really strongly feel it was the Eagle yoda himself! Wink)
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
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Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
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« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2010, 01:43:17 PM »

Many of the big trucks use the foam pipe insulation on the last so many feet of the run to the air drier.

Yes, as Jim has pointed out, there has to be more decision making than is found on an internet board.
Putting insulation in the first so many feet of the discharge line after the compressor would not be smart. Consult the Bendix materials for extensive instruction on air drier installation, line routing, troubleshooting and the implications of adding insulation.

There needs to be a certain length of pipe withstanding the heat of compression, which needs to be shed before the air drier, but then there is the problem in cold weather operations of losing too much heat and accumulating a build up of frozen moisture on the walls, until it plugs.

The compromise in some installs is some bare pipe, and some covered pipe.

On a Freightliner, circa 2001, that I am intimate with, the air drier is down low ahead of the steer tire, behind the bumper on the passenger side, with the compressor up high, over on the driver's side of the engine. The pipe wraps its way across the front of the chassis, loosely following the structure of the radiator support. There are quite a few feet of insulation covering the last of the run to the air drier.
This has worked to an indicated -44 degrees, so Freightliner seems to have got it right!

A motorcoach is much less likely to employ insulation on the discharge line, as most installs are quite sheltered compared to the openness found under trucks.

However, in this case, we are talking about a Dina, which I strongly suspect was not particularly engineered for winter conditions. Mix in the attempts by previous owners and hired hands to keep it functional... all bets are off.

As for the compressor needing work, call us back when the build-up time has deteriorated, and at that point you may find the air drier is spraying black oil out the purge valve.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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belfert
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« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2010, 03:24:41 PM »

Dina coaches in the USA are well known for problems in cold weather climates.  All of the Dina engineers were in Mexico and they had never built a coach for sale in the USA before.  Most of the problems have to do with the passenger heating system and the defrost system.  I have copies of several service bulletins regarding extensive changes required to the heating system.  They also had to add insulation to the heater hoses running to the defroster cores and cover up the grill openings in the front.

I have no idea if there are known problems with the air systems and freezing weather.  They put heaters on the auto drains on the rear tanks.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2010, 04:16:04 PM »

I think you are well experienced with Dina's cold weather air system dysfunction!

Dina cannot deny the immediate and obvious issue of cold passengers and drivers.

Dina can easily blame the fleet for bad maintenance if there is air system trouble.

Auto drains come with heaters from Bendix, that was easy for Dina to do.

happy coaching!
buswarrior



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