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Author Topic: lost my nuts  (Read 3645 times)
David Anderson
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South Texas in the Eagle Ford Shale area




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« on: December 10, 2010, 08:33:58 PM »

Lug nuts and studs, that is.  I came back from a trip and noticed a stud was broken.  I removed the other nuts to replace it and the stud adjacent the broken one turned ok, then when I went to turn it by hand it fell of in my glove.  These two make the five out of ten that have broken off on the street side front wheel in two years. 

When I bought new tires two years ago the tire shop must have way over tightened.  I put on two new lugs yesterday and tightened by hand.  I hope I don't lose the remaining 5 original studs.  I've never had a problem on the curbside wheels.

David
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2010, 08:41:10 PM »

David if it were me I'd go ahead and replace all 10 and specifically hand torque them! Then in 100 miles I'd jack it up and re-torque them!
Just my opinion!
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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hljebj
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2010, 09:04:57 PM »

Did you get your tires from Les Schwab?
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buswarrior
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2010, 05:25:48 AM »

Replace them all, they cannot be trusted, you have more than enough evidence that they have been badly abused.

When the first one breaks, a thorough inspection needs to be done on the rest, after the second one breaks, that triggers full replacement for me.

I expect that there will be visible evidence of thread pulling and stud elongation in the thread below where the nut sits.

Thanks for sharing!

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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trucktramp
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2010, 05:33:59 AM »

If it were me I'd get rid of them and replace with new.  It is a sickening feeling to watch a wheel come out of a wheel well and pass you (don't ask).  The cost is cheap insurance.
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Dennis Watson
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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2010, 05:38:12 AM »

I concur with everyone else. Since this is a front wheel, the end result of a lost wheel could be catastrophic.

Replace them all.

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Craig Shepard
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« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2010, 05:42:19 AM »

Oh, and could you save the studs if they show any damage?

Great to show other busnuts what a bad stud looks like in comparison to a new one.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2010, 05:43:02 AM »

Gee.......overtightened at a tire shop? How could that have happened!  Huh   Since the first time that i tried to take my wheels off and found that the only thing that worked was a 12:1 multiplier, i have hand torqued my own wheels. This spring i  replaced all of my steel wheels since i found 2 that were cracked and the others were suspect as far as the holes being too worn.  These wheels could have been the original 1968 wheels as far as i know. I also just had the fronts studs replaced when i had new front bearings, seals, and brakes put on this summer. It may take a little longer and be work for me but a tire shop isn't going to get near my wheels with an air gun as long as i own the bus. Grin
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2010, 05:47:09 AM »

Forgot to mention that i also replaced all of the lug nuts too, even though some were obviously newer than some of the others......not the place to try to save a dollar or two there.
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1968 MCI 5A with 8V71 and Allison MT644 transmission.  Western USA
kyle4501
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« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2010, 06:47:38 AM »

You could have a bad batch of studs, but I doubt it. It is far more likely they were over tightened.

This happens more often than some realize.
Most impact guns have higher torque ccw than cw. This is because most threads are RH (cw) to tighten & more is needed to remove. The problem comes when a tire monkey installs the nuts on the road side & does not realize he is over torquing them.

Now I'm waiting to see the responses of those who insist tire shops know what they are doing. . . .  Wink

It is the bus driver's responsibility to ensure it is safe.
However, that is a task often made difficult by incompetent 'professionals' who talk a good game. . .  Sad
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luvrbus
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« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2010, 07:02:58 AM »

The Houston Metro bus had steel wheels looking at photos of Davids studs they don't look long enough Eagle studs should have a nut width of thread showing after installing and tightening the wheel or they break for some reason.
You engineering guys can answer that one lol
 Fwiw I never broke a stud installing aluminum wheels most of the time it will break the wheel first,you guys need to be sure that you have the right bevel on the nut for aluminum wheels  



good luck
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 07:18:25 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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Paso One
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« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2010, 07:26:50 AM »

When I look at the stud and nut it looks to me that they are not the correct match.

That nut looks like it has a tapered end meant to go on a differant rim completly.

Shouldn't that rim have a flat face and a nut with a flat face.

I also agree not enough threads exposed but if the nut is wrong that would explain it.

Look closer.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 07:28:34 AM by Paso One » Logged

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kyle4501
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« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2010, 07:46:51 AM »

Good point about the taper of the nut. I assumed that was already confirmed.

For those that care, the exposed thread requirement is because the therads at the end of the stud are not 'perfect' like the rest of the threads. They tend to taper. Also, those last few threads have nothing to 'push against' & will yield under a lower load than those threads further away from the end of the stud.

In any properly tensioned high load joint, due to elastic stretching of the stud, only 3 threads carry the load. The stud returns to the original length when the nut is removed.
When over tightened, the the stretching becomes plastic & the stud does not return to the original length. Also, when stretched, the diameter reduces which lowers the overall strength of the stud. When constantly over tightened, this reduction of strength is cumulative up to the point of failure.

David, I'm so glad you made it home. Do replace all studs - it is cheap when compared to the risks. I'd also highly recommend repacing all the others - no guarantee the other wheels were spared the same abuse your front wheel suffered. . . .

Good luck & safe travels!  Grin
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desi arnaz
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« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2010, 07:49:54 AM »

same thing happened to me when i said i do
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David Anderson
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South Texas in the Eagle Ford Shale area




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« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2010, 08:36:51 AM »

The Houston Metro bus had steel wheels looking at photos of Davids studs they don't look long enough Eagle studs should have a nut width of thread showing after installing and tightening the wheel or they break for some reason.
You engineering guys can answer that one lol
 Fwiw I never broke a stud installing aluminum wheels most of the time it will break the wheel first,you guys need to be sure that you have the right bevel on the nut for aluminum wheels  



good luck
When I bought the bus I changed the wheels and had longer studs installed.  I don't have a clue about the correct nut bevel.  I may need some input on this.  What do I need to ask for.  I can replace all 10 nuts on each side if these are wrong.  When you walk into Truck Pro or any other parts house all they do is ask, "what's the part number?"  Not much help otherwise.  Do you guys needs some better close up photos?

Let me know.

David
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 08:40:04 AM by David Anderson » Logged
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