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Author Topic: Re: motorcycle rack  (Read 7030 times)
rv_safetyman
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Jim Shepherd


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« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2010, 05:57:53 AM »

Most buses are pretty close to the max load on the front axle, so I don't think it would be good to think about putting an extra load on the front.

Before we start on the back, recall that adding 500 pounds (or whatever the load) on either end is not adding the same weight to the axle.  There is leverage involved and a quick "summation of moments" (engineering 101) calculation will show what the real impact on the axle is.  The axles are probably strong enough to take the load, but the suspension components may not be (especially true with the Torsilastic springs)

Now lets go to the back.  Adding 500 pounds is the same as putting a 5000 pound trailer on the back in terms of vertical load on the frame structure.  1000 pounds would be the equivalent of a 10K trailer etc.  As we all know, the trailer subject comes up fairly frequently and the discussion always digresses into a debate (like oil and antifreeze Angry). 

In those discussions, i stand on the side that extreme caution must be exercised.  For the most part, the structure on these buses were not designed to have large vertical loads applied back of the bumper.  Then you have the impact of years of corrosion on the structure.  I have seen Eagle tubing (structural members) that are perhaps 1/2 the wall thickness of the original tubing or less.  My Eagle is not too bad as far as rust is concerned, but when I did my engine conversion, I decided to "double tube" all of the structural tubing in the area.  I had to be very careful when doing the welding not to burn through the compromised original tubing.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2010, 06:05:12 AM »

I know that it would be a hassle but if i was going to haul a bike, i think that with all things considered i would use a trailer.
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1968 MCI 5A with 8V71 and Allison MT644 transmission.  Western USA
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« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2010, 06:36:09 AM »

I'm with Ed as far as hauling a bike by using a trailer but then again I have several trailers. If you do decide on the carrier route I would opt for a lift type system and not a ramp with that size of bike. I have no idea what the frame of your bus looks like but after seeing pics of others doing such I'm sure you can also.
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robertglines1
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« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2010, 06:43:16 AM »

Cody ;are you still planning on towing jeep also??? might be a deal breaker.
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
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« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2010, 07:04:13 AM »

Cody, Any thing can be done, properly. Since your welder sounds more than qualified to do the needed fabrication, that is gonna be half the battle right there since metal shavings are not your forte. As Jim mentioned the reinforcing of the engine compartment will be critical in building the lift you want on the rear. Talk to Sonny Gray and a few others about what has been accomplished successfully back there.  Wink Smiley Smiley
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Len Silva
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« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2010, 08:35:47 AM »

My concern with the extended hitch is that it is harder on the steering components of the towed.  The further the ball is from the rear axle, the harder it is. 

When you make a right hand turn with the bus, the towed first makes a left hand turn followed by a right hand turn.  The more the ball pivots, the worse it becomes, theoretically to the point where the towed goes lock to lock.
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2010, 09:58:18 AM »

We really have two issues here.  One is how much we load up the rear axle and Torsilastic and, two: is the rear structure strong enough to support the load.

Lets look at the first one.  If we take a very simplistic look at the loads and assume there is no bogey, then the "summation of moments becomes very easy.  I just measured my Eagle and the distance from the front axle to rear axle is roughly 293 inches (within a couple of inches - good enough for this example).  The distance from the front axle to where the load would probably be concentrated is approximately 416 inches.  If we sum moments about the front axle  and assume a 1000 pound load (I think that would be low with the structure that Cody is looking at) it looks like this:

     1000 pounds * 416 inches =  X pounds * 293 inches.    X (the increase on the rear axle) would then calculate to be 1419 pounds.

Obviously the bogey will handle some of that load.  Will that be too much - probably not, but I just wanted to point out what happens when you put a load about 10 feet behind the axle.

Even the best hitch fabricator is attaching to the existing structure.  If the existing structure has not been compromised much, it might handle the load.  Personally I would not hang even 500 pounds on the back of an Eagle without reinforcing the structure to offset the affects of corrosion and possible lack of strength of the original structure.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
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luvrbus
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« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2010, 10:16:32 AM »

One thing you guys forget is the bottom frame is not tied into the roof frame on each corner that has to be addressed before hanging that much weight from a hitch.
I weld tubing and tie the 2 together as tough as the Eagles frames are people do overload the rear but that said I have seen lots of Eagles with motorcycle racks on the front and rear



good luck
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Len Silva
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« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2010, 10:27:03 AM »

I agree, if your Eagle is in good shape, then 5 or 600 lbs is not even going to be noticed.  On the other hand, a big bike hung on the back would make a great hidden corrosion detector.
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« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2010, 10:39:21 AM »

Cody, when you install a 60 series in a Eagle they re index the boogies to carry the weight and FWIW the 15 with the series 60 used a heavier rear axle,Jim is not going to tell you wrong he puts a lot of research,time and energy into these items maybe to much LOL but I go with him 


good luck
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luvrbus
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« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2010, 11:01:19 AM »

Cody, baggage bays are not structural on a Eagle they were design to carry 1200 lbs ea



good luck
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DMoedave
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« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2010, 08:30:56 PM »

Not supposed to hang anything off GM's but here is Art's bus with the  Goldwing hanging on the rear. He made his own lift with an electric winch.
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2010, 05:18:29 AM »

Cody, people have done it and you could too. I think that what is being said  is that even though it is being done there is the potential for problems and those problems could be serious.  I don't think that anyone is trying to rain on your parade, they are just trying to make you aware of areas of concern. I am sure that you could have it fabbed up by the best welder in the world and still have it fail sometime down the road and yet somebody else could cobble it up with bubble gum and bailing wire and  run with it for years. Some people are just really lucky and some aren't.  I have seen people do things dozens of times with no problem that if i had tried to do would have crippled or killed me. And i have done things that other people would never try to do because of the same reason. It all depends on your comfort level i guess.  Smiley
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robertglines1
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« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2010, 05:33:55 AM »

put a wheel under carrier like the ones they use on tag trailers with large tongue weights when they pull them..crazy wheel.  off the wall and prob not necessary.
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
luvrbus
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« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2010, 05:38:12 AM »

Cody,I was just trying to inform you on how the Eagle frame was built and rebuilding your baggage bays will not add any strength to the Eagle frame it has a truss frame at floor level from front to back
Slides can cause problems on a Eagle also just like they do on a Prevost or MCI it is not a given by any means like I said people install those carriers on the back of the Eagles anything is possible if you throw enough cash at it this is not coming from the metal police but the school of hard knocks lol so have at it my friend  


good luck
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