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Author Topic: Cellphone Ban Bus/Truck Drivers  (Read 6532 times)
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« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2010, 10:23:09 PM »

Very well said, Len.

You can not legislate common sense.

  I disagree. A pilot lands a plane and blows a tire. He loses control and wrecks the plane. The FAA terms it as pilot loss of control, but weighs the situation with contributing factors. A person has a blowout on the interstate going straight down level highway, loses control and rolls over and dies. The courts go after the car and tire company.

  We can legislate common sense by simply making loss of control an irresponsible act. There simply is no excuse for losing control if your well trained and qualified to operate a piece of equipment. And the weight of that responsibility should be squarely placed on the operator to decide if they are qualified or not.

  Once again, to use aviation regulations as an example, the pilot is "in command", and all power of decision making rests entirely on the pilot in command, from determining the airworthiness of the aircraft, to his own abilities to operate it. Should he fail to control it, or recognise deficiencies, there is a whole agency above him looking down upon him with the power to act.

  We dont need to ban cell phones, we need to come down hard on people who lose control, or who otherwise fail to act responsibly.
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« Reply #46 on: December 24, 2010, 07:33:00 AM »

I agree.  If every driver had to have 40 hours of training before they could drive solo, an annual physical and check ride, a complete investigation of every accident, etc. there would be far fewer accidents.  There would also be far more regulations.

What happens when a pilot is found to have been chatting with his wife on the radio instead of 100% attention to flying?

Do you not think that if a new tire blows on a plane that the manufacturer and?or the installer will not be found at least partly responsible.

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Once again, to use aviation regulations as an example, the pilot is "in command", and all power of decision making rests entirely on the pilot in command, from determining the airworthiness of the aircraft, to his own abilities to operate it. Should he fail to control it, or recognize deficiencies, there is a whole agency above him looking down upon him with the power to act.

So how would the bureaucratic structure and regs look from a federal agency controlling all motor vehicle drivers?

You are correct, there are far too many lawyers chasing a dollar and very poorly trained drivers in this country.  I do believe that the vast majority of blowout accidents are driver error, but how many drivers have been trained to handle one?  Are you willing to spend thousands of dollars to make sure your kids are properly trained to drive a car?

Can you blame the driver who loses control when that have not been trained?  Worse, they don't even know that they are not trained.
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« Reply #47 on: December 24, 2010, 07:45:12 AM »

ALL of the laws that are passed are to protect people --- usually based on one DUMB SHI T and his lawyer -- the DUMB S thinks it's your fault and the lawyer wants the money

I've heard that a great majority of the codes in the National Electric Code are there because one or more people died or were seriously injured and there may have also been lawsuits.

Some of the NEC codes are just stupid and are reactions to either problems in old houses (before the codes) or issues that should NEVER happen in a structure built to current code.  Arc fault breakers are required now because a nail or screw can sometimes penetrate a wire causing an arc, but not tripping a regular breaker.  A house built with the wire installed properly to code and drywalled with the proper length screws/nails should never allow a metal object to get close to the wire!

If someone ignores the NEC would they pay the $35 (instead of $5 or less) per breaker for AFCIs?
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« Reply #48 on: December 24, 2010, 09:19:22 AM »

I doubt very much that Arc fault breakers came about because of nails driven into a wire.  Much more likely is a loose wirenut in a junction box in the attic or loose screw in a fixture.  I've had them trip when a bulb blew out and think they are the greatest invention since GFI's.

Granted, the licensed electrician properly tightened everything up, but how about the home owner who installs a fan or new light fixture and doesn't properly tighten things up.  How about the guy who drives a 3 inch nail into the wall to hang a picture?

I know that all of us would do it right, just like we can talk on a cell phone and drive well.  It's all those other people screwing up that we have to worry about.

$35.00 is pretty cheap compared to a house fire.
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« Reply #49 on: December 24, 2010, 11:30:55 AM »

  Oh, how did our forefathers handle such? We always believe our problems and issues so vast, that the simple minded folk of old surely could not fathom our modern complexities.

  They would have handled such with the block, the whip, or the gallows. Pay attention boy. Do you think they handed over a three masted ship to an 8 year old ship hand still wet behind the ears? You found your way to the helm by proving yourself before your peers. Dash it on the rocks and be found lacking in conscience, and if your surviving crew didnt hang you from the yard arm, the ship owners might.

  If an idiot ran wild down the street with horse and buggy, and trampled a child, would they have shot the horse? Would they have rousted the buggy maker from his sleep and lashed him in the street with a cat-o-nine tails for building a faulty brake?

  I am not exclaming we need more regulation, we need better enforcement of the regulations we have currently, and simple common sense. We dont need a giant national beaurocracy watching over us, we need our states to put us to task in being responsible. This malaise that has taken over our Nation, this attitude that no man is held responsible for their actions, its spread to everything, and everyone. But most sadly, its spread to our schools, and our children.

  Of course we have to ban everything in such a society. We need to fence off the rivers and lakes, block the precipices of the canyons, label everything we see and touch with warnings. In the Twin Cities, after the Halloween Snowstorm of 1991, it was reported that nearly 1000 people had chopped up thier hands in running snowblowers attempting to unclog them. I assure you, that nearly 100% of those morons share the road with us. When will we ever learn to hold idiots responsible for their actions, instead of holding the rest of us hostage to thier idiocy.
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« Reply #50 on: December 24, 2010, 11:57:34 AM »

You just have to understand that ignorance can be fixed with education, but there is no cure for stupid.

If stupid people only hurt themselves, it would not be that big of a deal.  The fact is that stupid people hurt others.
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« Reply #51 on: December 26, 2010, 07:57:44 AM »

. . . .  Are you willing to spend thousands of dollars to make sure your kids are properly trained to drive a car?
. . . .

Of course! I spend time teaching by explaining what I'm looking for & also explaining the risks of some of the stupid things I sometimes find myself doing.
The car may not cost thousands of dollars, but the lives on board are, so I put in the time & $$$ to ensure my kids are ready.

RE: "Can you blame the driver who loses control when that have not been trained?  Worse, they don't even know that they are not trained."
Who gave them permission to drive? They should have passed a test showing they know these things before being given a license.
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« Reply #52 on: December 26, 2010, 08:08:14 AM »

Personal responsibility for one's own actions is what needs to be encouraged / enforced. But, since the litigation lottery can't make any money there, it ain't likely to happen.

The worst & scariest electrical messes I have ever seen were created by licensed electricians . . .
I see arc fault breakers as protection from faulty appliances - electric blankets come to mind. Broken outlets & faulty plugs can also need this protection.

I'd like to be able to use the phone while driving - provided the road conditions permit. Also, how is it to be determined who was using the phone - passangers often use my phone while I'm driving, how is that such a big distraction?

I doubt very much that Arc fault breakers came about because of nails driven into a wire.  Much more likely is a loose wirenut in a junction box in the attic or loose screw in a fixture.  I've had them trip when a bulb blew out and think they are the greatest invention since GFI's.

Granted, the licensed electrician properly tightened everything up, but how about the home owner who installs a fan or new light fixture and doesn't properly tighten things up.  How about the guy who drives a 3 inch nail into the wall to hang a picture?

I know that all of us would do it right, just like we can talk on a cell phone and drive well.  It's all those other people screwing up that we have to worry about.

$35.00 is pretty cheap compared to a house fire.
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« Reply #53 on: December 26, 2010, 08:36:55 AM »


RE: "Can you blame the driver who loses control when that have not been trained?  Worse, they don't even know that they are not trained."
Who gave them permission to drive? They should have passed a test showing they know these things before being given a license.


Kyle,

That was my point exactly.  Drivers in this country (unlike some European countries), get very little training.  You pass a written test on rules and regulations, and a 15 minute road test to check the use of turn signals and a full stop at a sign.

There is no test for high speed merging or lane changes, for handling a blowout, or skid.  There would be no way to train or test for those abilities without a closed course or expensive simulator.  That's what I was talking about when I said "thousands of dollars to train your kid". Not the cost of the car but the cost of real training and testing.

Most of us here have an affinity with our machines.  We have driven race cars and heavy equipment or otherwise just have a relationship with machinery, and as a group, are probably better than average drivers and better than average is not saying much.  Many, many people don't have that. A car is to get them someplace with no inkling of how it operates or what it's limitations are.

We, the people who tell our government what we want, are the ones who gave them permission to drive.  The examiner who issued the license is the one who told them that they were trained, so they don't know what they don't know.

There would be a huge outcry if RV drivers were required to be trained and test their abilities in handling heavy vehicles, so we as a community are as much to blame as anyone.
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« Reply #54 on: December 26, 2010, 08:38:55 AM »

I have been keeping up with the Hester wreck since it happened...it appears the phone call the dead driver was on terminated two minutes before the crash.
Jack
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« Reply #55 on: December 26, 2010, 12:40:04 PM »

Jack,
If you keep this up, you may not get as many Christmas cards next year.  Wink

Those who are so eager to take away your right to choose (in the name of 'safety') don't want the rest of the story known.

'They' don't want anyone to bring up facts that don't sensationalize the drama.

Banning cell phones because they contribute to some collisions will not change anything except what people blame the stupidity of others on next.

len, I will enroll both of my kids in a performance driving school so they will learn how to handle a car at speed. That class will come only AFTER they have a solid understanding of how the basic systems of the car work & have actual experience of all basic routine service procedures.

I took a defensive driving course years ago. The one thing that still stands out is the result of all the testing said that I was a better driver than most. Now, I know my driving skills suck, so I'm really nervous in traffic & when I buy a car, I'm definitely looking at crash survivability.
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« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2010, 04:40:21 PM »

Kyle, you're doing the same thing the news media did...talking about absolute bans when the legislation proposed is only about hand-held use of phones. Not even close to an absolute ban.

Yes, it would be nice if personal responsibility was enough...but if that were true, we wouldn't need any rules of the road at all!
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« Reply #57 on: December 27, 2010, 08:12:15 PM »

Kyle, you're doing the same thing the news media did...talking about absolute bans when the legislation proposed is only about hand-held use of phones. Not even close to an absolute ban.

Yes, it would be nice if personal responsibility was enough...but if that were true, we wouldn't need any rules of the road at all!

I don't have a problem with 'rules of the road' per se, just a problem with what I see as political maneuvering creating laws that aren't practical to enforce.

It ain't just the media wanting an absolute ban on cell phones while driving. All I'm trying to do is express my thoughts concerning what I believe to be excessive legislation.

I'd be more inclined to back laws that encourage responsible behaviour without punishing the whole due to the actions of a irresponsible few.

Yeah, like that will ever happen. . . .  Wink
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« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2010, 09:40:26 PM »

The world can be dangerous.  In an effort to pretend that we have more control of fate than we do, we make laws.  If one goes over highway fatality statistics, I think you will find that we are doing pretty well compared to the pre-cellphone days when the highway death tolls were constantly being updated on the radio on any holiday weekend.  When was the last time you heard those?  I wonder how many accidents have been caused by indigestion; we should probably ban fast food.
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« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2010, 12:05:30 AM »

    What we need is a graduated license
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