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Author Topic: Lots Of Smoke When Trying To Start...  (Read 4671 times)
luvrbus
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« Reply #30 on: December 25, 2010, 08:39:10 PM »

 Kat's make block heaters that will work about anywhere on a engine even on the freeze plug for good heaters I like the 1500w it doesn't take long 

www.warehouseautoparts.com
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 06:59:24 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2010, 09:30:46 PM »

Hey guys where can I find a block heater for a '64 8v71? Even in central NC they are  great to have.  ( former road driver)
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« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2010, 10:49:36 PM »

The electric block heater for the 8V-71 goes on the right rear of the block at the square plate with 4 bolts holding it.  Problem is-this is also where the coolant line for the transmission is taken from.  When that is done, there is no other place on the block to put an electric block heater.  Other options would be an inline heater on that same coolant line from the transmission cooler, or what I did last weekend-put a 500 watt halogen light under the oil pan for about 2 hours.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2010, 04:32:04 AM »

You probably know this, but don't be tempted to change the 40wt to "winter" or multi-viscosity oil.  40wt is correct for your use.  Even in the winter. 

Actually the book says to put 30W in for colder temperatures (can't remember exactly how they define "colder").  I don't like doing that and its not necessary if you can properly warm the block up prior to starting but as somebody has already pointed out, with temps in the 20s (F), 40 weight oil is like molasses.
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« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2010, 05:05:13 AM »

You guys are diehards.  Using straight Rotella, etc., 30w or 15w-40 is much better in freezing temps than straight 40wt.  Your engine starts much easier and sounds much better starting in the cold.  Since the most wear on an engine is when it is first started, getting the oil circulating and lubing is better with the lighter oils than the cold thick 40wt.
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Geoff
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« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2010, 06:06:37 AM »

You probably know this, but don't be tempted to change the 40wt to "winter" or multi-viscosity oil.  40wt is correct for your use.  Even in the winter. 

Actually the book says to put 30W in for colder temperatures (can't remember exactly how they define "colder").  I don't like doing that and its not necessary if you can properly warm the block up prior to starting but as somebody has already pointed out, with temps in the 20s (F), 40 weight oil is like molasses.

According to DD, 32 degree's ambient without starting aids (e.g. block heaters, ether, ...) or below 0 with them.

Quote from: Detroit Diesel Lubricating Oil, Fuel and Filters Engine Requirements, section 2-4
At ambient temperatures below freezing (32 F or 0 C), sufficient starter cranking speed
may not be achieved to start the engine with SAE 40 grade oils. Where starting aids are
not available or at very cold temperatures (0 F to -25 F or -18 C to -32 C) even if
starting aids are available, the use of multigrade SAE 15W-40 or monograde lubricant
SAE 30 will improve startability. These lubricants must possess a High Temperature
High Shear Rate Viscosity (measured by ASTM D 4741 or equivalent) of 3.70 cP
minimum. These oils must be replaced with monograde SAE 40 lubricants as soon as
ambient conditions permit.

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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2010, 07:21:55 AM »

I went to my local parts store and they looked up a block heater for a truck with the 8V71. I had the choice of 2 wattage sizes and took the larger one. I think the cost was around $50. Looking at the motor on my MC with the rear doors open the heater mounts in the block on the right hand side facing the rear of the bus just below where the head and block mate. It is a 1" NPT threaded fitting with an immersion tube that goes into the water jacket. If I am correct it was rated at 1500 watts and generally plugging it in for 2 hours makes the ole girl fire like it is summer. I have an Allison and that block heater is independent of any lines associated with the tranny cooler. Hope that helps....
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« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2010, 10:27:07 AM »

You only need to drain the coolant to below the location you are installing it.

So, in an MCI, with the rads higher than the engine, it's a lot of coolant, in a side mount radiator like a GM and an Eagle, you will drain a lot less to get the level down below your opening.

Where on the continent does the temp not drop to freezing and below on some irregular basis?

An easy afternoon install in the warm weather....

happy coaching!
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Barn Owl
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« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2010, 07:32:08 PM »

Quote
The electric block heater for the 8V-71 goes on the right rear of the block at the square plate with 4 bolts holding it.  Problem is-this is also where the coolant line for the transmission is taken from.

Problem I had but found the solution that Chopper Scott used:

Quote
It is a 1" NPT threaded fitting with an immersion tube that goes into the water jacket.

Word of caution! Do not start your bus with the block heater on! The shock of diesel ignition will break the element. Just like an incandescent light bulb filament is very fragile and easier to break while it is on. I found out the hard way, and got educated by the manufacture's tech support.

Lastly, it is a myth that using ether will make your engine dependent. Engines get hard to start for various reasons, and instead of finding out why they don't start like they used to, it is easier just to spray it and keep spraying it. And from that time on blame the ether instead of fixing the problem. There is a reason I call my conversion "Wheezy bus", it is absolutely worn out. If ether destroyed engines then the engine in Wheezy would be in pieces by now. I find ether easier than re-powering it (I have a donated rebuilt 8v71 to put into it but what I have still works and I don't want to take the time to swap it while the children are still at home. But my dream re-power is a 6v92 turbo if I could find one). Those old engines were made to use ether as a starting aid. My bus and many others still has the ball cup on the blower for it. The only way I know to get into trouble with the stuff is to use too much at one time. A nice shot into the air intake on mine always gets a quick fire. A tiny squirt into the old ball cup also works well.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 07:51:26 PM by Barn Owl » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: December 26, 2010, 08:43:15 PM »

You guys are diehards.  Using straight Rotella, etc., 30w or 15w-40 is much better in freezing temps than straight 40wt.  Your engine starts much easier and sounds much better starting in the cold.  Since the most wear on an engine is when it is first started, getting the oil circulating and lubing is better with the lighter oils than the cold thick 40wt.

Noooo....don't do that.   Multi viscosity isn't at all recommended for 2 stroke detroits.   Detroit recommended going to 30 wt only if there was no other option.   Detroit recommends 40 wt for highway use in all highway use above 0*.   Even  dem Canadians run 40 wt.   
Everyone needs a block heater of some sort.   
BTW, draining coolant from an MC9 will require a container of about 12 gallons...with the heater gates closed.   
Gitrdone!  JR
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
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Rick 74 MC-8
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« Reply #40 on: December 27, 2010, 09:34:10 AM »

I replaced my block heater without draining. Just have the new one all ready with permatex unscrew the old it only leaks about two glugs (about a pint) and swap it out.


                                                                                     Rick 74 MC-8
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2010, 10:33:41 AM »

I replaced my block heater without draining. Just have the new one all ready with permatex unscrew the old it only leaks about two glugs (about a pint) and swap it out.


                                                                                     Rick 74 MC-8

That's how I did it also. I lost a bit more than 2 glugs however!! Not quite as swift I guess but still probably lost less than a 1/2 gallon. I probably would have lost that much draining the system and spilling it anyways!
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luvrbus
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« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2010, 10:48:44 AM »

Little trick here guys I can install one where the factory installed on the block without losing any coolant not even a gurgle.
I have plug that fits the surge tank with a 1/4 inch hose I pull a vacuum with the truck or shop vac bingo your done now you know lol only takes 3 or 4 lbs of vacuum no coolant lose,just be sure it is above water level  


good luck
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 10:54:09 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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