Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
July 24, 2014, 07:41:08 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an E-Mag Subscription: It can be read on any computer, iPad, smart phone, or compatible device.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: 8D Batteries suck!  (Read 5974 times)
Slide
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 32




Ignore
« on: December 28, 2010, 10:12:05 AM »

I have been using 8D batteries from Sam,s Club ($ 175.00 ea. ) I,m lucky to get two years out them.Is there anything better out there? Maybe another brand 8D?
Logged
Lin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4527

1965 MC-5a




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2010, 10:21:29 AM »

I don't think that it is the 8D batteries that are necessarily at fault.  Battery maintenance is a huge factor in battery life.  There are those on this board that get the same couple of years that you do from batteries, but there are others that get several times that.  I think you will find that the big difference is in how they take care of them.  Follow that advise of those guys that use them for 5 or 6 years and yours should do the same.
Logged

You don't have to believe everything you think.
Slide
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 32




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2010, 10:26:07 AM »

Besides topping up with distilled water. What else?
Logged
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 12063




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2010, 10:29:19 AM »

Yea, buy the calcium construction 8D they are maintenance free last 8 to 10 years for starting Cat dealers have good ones for around what you are paying at Sam's fwiw here the Sam's Club sell the 8D Interstate for 129.00 why so much there ? or buy 4 group 31 but not from Sam's they are junk also.
 I get around a year from the group 31 from Sam's it was ok till they cut the warranty to 6 months draw back to replacing with group 31 more cables
Logged

Live each day like it was your last,one day it will be
Eagle Andy
Cowboy Coach
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 560


1968 Silver Eagle # 7481




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2010, 10:47:58 AM »

I have two NAPA 8ds and they are going on 5 years old and came close to freezing one year lol I just do normal maintence once a month. My bus is plugged in all the time when not movin down the road,
Logged

1968 Model 05 Eagle # 7481 Miles City MT
rv_safetyman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2199


Jim Shepherd


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2010, 10:50:16 AM »

It sounds to me like you are not being careful to keep your batteries from going below 50% state of charge.  If you run your batteries below that value consistently, they will die an early death.

There are lots of threads on the subject.  Also tons of sites.

Most folks who are careful about their batteries use a SOC gauge.  I use a Bogart Trimetric as do many folks:

http://www.bogartengineering.com/

A voltmeter is not a good measure of SOC.  The battery has to have no flow in or out for many hours before a voltmeter is of any value.  That does not happen with our units.  If your batteries have been stable for many hours, 50% SOC is about 12.2 volts.

My guess is that you let your batteries get way below that value.

Jim
Logged

Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
Len Silva
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4083


Angle Parked in a Parallel Universe


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2010, 10:54:22 AM »

I have had multiple problems with batteries from Sams.  In one case, I bought three GRP 31's that turned out to be two years old on the shelf.  Generally good luck with NAPA or Interstate.  Make friends with your local Interstate dealer, sometimes some good deals on blems, especially if you can wait for them.

The vast majority of battery purchases are "gotta have it right now", so if you let them know what you are looking for and can wait, there are deals out there.
Logged


Hand Made Gifts

Ignorance is only bliss to the ignorant.
HighTechRedneck
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2922


BCM Editor


WWW
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2010, 12:37:54 PM »

Besides topping up with distilled water. What else?

  • Keep their charge maintained.  Letting batteries sit for extended period of time without a maintainer is a major culprit.  A small battery maintainer for each battery can help.
  • Avoid discharging them lower than their specifications indicate.
  • Charge at the right voltage for the batteries.  Excessive charging on a simple basic battery charger can overcharge them and boil them.  A good quality three stage charger is recommended by some of the folks that get the most life out of their batteries.
  • Check them regularly for water level and test with a hydrometer as described by Jim.
  • Use your disconnect switches when parked for more than a few hours.
  • Keep them clean and terminals free of corrosion
Logged
robertglines1
steam nut
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3969





Ignore
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2010, 12:56:21 PM »

I think the guys pretty well covered it. I now run 4 group 31 batt with a constant maintainer when not in use.6yrs old now and still starting .  Bought from my local batt supply house $42 each now $56 in 2010. Had one go bad. Believe it or not mouse got fried between positive post and frame of bus.First for me and must have made enough of a short and amperage flow to kick fuse on that leg of charger /maintainer and kill battery. replaced it and had all others load tested and battery guy said just to do the one that they were strong and didn't need replaced.   Fwiw   Bob
Logged

Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6667





Ignore
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2010, 12:59:07 PM »

I tried Caterpillar batteries and was not impressed.  Personally like Lifeline AGM batteries.  Install them with a smart charger and basically forget about them.  No water to fill since they are sealed, and because they are sealed, do not gas-hence the terminals do not get dirty.  I have 6 year old 8D Lifeline AGM's that are still going strong.  Worth the extra money.  Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 12063




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2010, 01:26:07 PM »

TomC by now we all know you are impressed with LifeLine do you know who makes the Cat AGM batteries I do CAT has good batteries I used those for over 20 years without problems warranty was never a issue have a bad take it back no questions asked or testing.
Five hundred a pop for the LifeLine 8D's this guy can get a battery for less than 1/2 of that and will work just as good and last as long


good luck
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 01:53:10 PM by luvrbus » Logged

Live each day like it was your last,one day it will be
Lonnie time to go
Lonnie
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 301

Saginaw, Michgan




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2010, 02:00:58 PM »

8d lifeline agms

OMG  lifeline 8d google was  $800.00

I payed $194.00 for mine 4 years ago

Lonnie
Logged

1976 4905
gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3486





Ignore
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2010, 03:19:00 PM »

8Ds are just too heavy for an old wimp like me so I go with Gp 31s. My 4107 has 8Ds so I'm stuck with them until they die but will replace with 31s.

I bought four 31s for my 4104 from Sam's five years ago, they are still going strong with no signs of problems. Sam's and WM will replace a bad battery, no questions asked and they are all over the country, the major advantage to me as we travel all over the US.

I've never seen a WM or Sam's battery more than two months old, I always check closely before buying. No, I don't own WM stock and don't even like the way they operate!!

I remove them every year of so and completely clean the terminals and connectors. Post terminals will develop a black, very thin coat of corrosion in spite of anything you can do. It doesn't even appear to be corrosion except in very strong light, but it is. The posts must be silver shiny clean as well as the insides of the clamps.
Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
bobofthenorth
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2071



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2010, 03:57:50 PM »

I just finally replaced the two 8-Ds that were in the bus when we bought it 7-1/2 years ago.  They were old when we bought the bus so I have no idea how old they were when I finally pulled them out.  They were flooded batteries and that's what I replaced them with.  I more or less ignored them the whole time we had them.  Occasionally I cleaned the terminals.  I think I might have checked the water twice.  About the only "special" treatment I ever gave them was to throw the disconnect switch when we used to park it for the winter.  If the ones I just bought do even half as well I'll consider myself well treated.  The new ones came from NAPA but I have no idea where the originals came from.
Logged

R.J.(Bob) Evans
1981 Prevost 8-92, 10 spd
My website
Our weblog
Simply growing older is not the same as living.
HB of CJ
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1230




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2010, 04:05:58 PM »

Like already said, they are so heavy.  Had to hire some big young guy to install my last pair.  He just scooped them up the plunked them in.  Wow, to be young again!

I had to buy new ones because the old ones where overcharged bone dry from overcharging.  Seems someone left the charger on when he was sure it was off.  Don't ask who.

Anyhow...if done again, it would be nice to be able to $afford$ the new fancy absorbed gas mat type, but then like already said before again, they are sooss $expensive$.  Yikes!  HB of CJ (old coot)
Logged
jjrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2309

MCI5C/N Ft Myers FL




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2010, 04:16:45 PM »

Not only do they S+++, they are also heavy. I really do not want to drag them around ever again! I'll go with Gus, as soon as I learned about Grp 31 battery's I went with them!!

 I hyped the advantages of WalMart battery's and tires for the traveler for a long time. Till the last time I had a warranty issue. I had a bad cell, with a hydrometer I could prove I had a bad cell. They did not care, after they charge a battery if it passes a load test they will not replace it! They told me it was the new corporate policy.

My new corporate policy is to buy my battery's from NAPA.   JIm (AKA Wimpy old Coot)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 04:18:58 PM by jjrbus » Logged

Remember, even at a Mensa convention someone is the dumbest person in the room!

http://photobucket.com/buspictures

http://photobucket.com/buspictures
James77MCI8
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 338





Ignore
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2010, 05:06:58 PM »

Maintenance free *D's in mt 8 for last five years with no problems.
Logged

77 MCI 8
8V-71 4 spd
Bill B /bus
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 267





Ignore
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2010, 05:24:56 PM »

Went to the battery distributor with friend because he needed new house batteries. The owner asked if we were interested in AGM's. Sure, interested but the price is never right. Owner said two years old installed but never placed in service. Price? I asked. Reply a $100 each. So my friend bought his four, me six, my good bud in Ct got three.
The best part is Lifeline AGM 8D.  And Bill doesn't have to water batteries ever again, yeah! You do have to reset your charging parameters to a higher voltage than the wet cells.

After a few years on submarines I learned about battery maintenance. More than I ever wanted to know.
Logged

Bill & Lynn
MCI102A3, Series 50 w/HT70
ArtGill
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 198




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2010, 05:52:01 PM »

Reminder, 8D and group 31, etc are just physical size.  Check the other specifications and you will find differences.

Art
Logged

Art & Cheryll Gill
Morehead City, NC
1989 Eagle Model 20 NJT, 6v92ta
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6667





Ignore
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2010, 08:42:25 AM »

Starting batteries on all trucks that I know are size 31's.  All U.S. trucks are still using 12vdc. Depending on the size of the engine, typically medium sized trucks use 2 batteries, day cabs (trucks without sleepers) use 3 batteries, and sleepers use 4 batteries.  I replaced my 2 8D starting batteries with 2-size 31 Interstate batteries that are 950cca.  They crank my engine just fine.

For deep cycle batteries, I agree that 8D's are heavy (my Lifelines are 155lbs).  Another way to go is with 6vdc batteries.  The L16 is a huge 6vdc battery, but still lighter at 115lbs then the 8D.  The L16 puts out 400amp/hours which is quite a bit higher then the 255amp/hours that the 8D's put out.  Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
zubzub
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1163


'53 4104. Roadworthy but rough around the edges.


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2010, 08:50:46 AM »

fwiw I can start my 6-71with one size  31 which

I think is a 850 cca
Logged

luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 12063




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2010, 09:45:06 AM »

Not trying to show any disrespect TomC but the 400 A/H is at 6 volt on the L16 would be 200 at 12 volt

good luck
Logged

Live each day like it was your last,one day it will be
gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3486





Ignore
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2010, 01:00:34 PM »

jjr,

Never had anything but good experience with WM returns.

If they ever treat me the way they did you I'll change also.

I found that my 4104 would easily start on one G31 but always used two in case of cold weather.

Only used two G31 d/c for house batts with no problems but my house electrics load is light. I could also connect the house up for starting boost, had to use them a couple of times during alternator failures.

The only reason for using two 8Ds in buses I can see was to support the huge AC fan motor. The one in my 4104 was rated at 40 amps!!
Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
Oonrahnjay
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1343





Ignore
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2010, 01:36:42 PM »

  fwiw I can start my 6-71with one size  31 which I think is a 850 cca

Not that it matters to many (any?) of you, but my 680" 6 cylinder 4-stroke has a 24V system and I've just gone from 4 Type 31's (pairs in parallel and then the pairs in series) to two Type 31's (in series, of course).  A couple of weeks ago, I started in 30 degree temps with the engine cold 2-3 times.  Every time but one it started after 2-3 revolutions; the only time that it took a couple of button pushes was when I'd changed the fuel filters and maybe didn't have great prime (also it hadn't been started for a few weeks before that).  These are new NAPA Type 31's.

One thing I'd mention.  Batteries can be a crap shoot.  If you treat them badly, you'll find that it's about a sure bet that they'll go bad on you pretty quickly.  But if you have a few batteries and you do everything you can to be "by the book", it's not unheard of to have an odd one go south on you.  Probably not a sign you did anything wrong - just the way it sometimes happens.
Logged

Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

(New Email -- brucebearnc@ (theGoogle gmail place) .com)
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 12063




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2010, 01:55:49 PM »

Here is some info for you guys that will save replacing the heavy a** Delco starters


39mt  10.40 hp  amp draw 1650
42mt  10,40 hp  amp draw 1650
50mt  11.35 hp  amp draw 2000

keep the amps up with good batteries or you will be replacing the Delco they do not like low amps and voltage,900 amps will start a 2 stroke fwiw
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 01:57:55 PM by luvrbus » Logged

Live each day like it was your last,one day it will be
white-eagle
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1184





Ignore
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2010, 07:10:52 PM »

Every 8d or 31 i've ever seen had thin starting battery plates and was acid starved.  and i worked at a battery factory for 10 years.  auto, truck and industrial batteries.  i'll stick with GC 6v batteries with the thicker plates to handle the load, and deeper discharge longer.  no 8d's.  too heavy and not capable of deep cycle as well as the GC's.  same with 31's.  great for my start batteries, but not so great for house.  I'm happy with the GC's.  ymmv. hth.
Logged

Tom
1991 Eagle 15 and proud of it.
8V92T, 740, Fulltime working on the road.

Fran was called to a higher duty 12/16/13. I lost my life navigator.
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6667





Ignore
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2010, 11:22:06 PM »

The L16 6V battery is 400amp/hrs.  Add a second to make 12vdc, and you still have 400amp/hours.  Wire 4 L16's in series and you have 24vdc still at 400amp/hrs.  Wire the 4 L16's so two sets each in series to make 12vdc and wire those two pairs in parallel, and you have 800amp/hrs @ 12vdc.  Still with the individual batteries weighing about 115lbs apiece.  Good Luck, TomC
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 07:27:23 AM by TomC » Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
challenger440
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 184


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2010, 08:45:25 AM »

Wow Luvrbus, over 10 hp for the starter!  Thats almost as many hp as my old duke 4 cyl that's in my Fiero.  In its current state it's making about 50.  JM
Logged

John M.
Helena, Mt
MC7  "under construction"
gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3486





Ignore
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2010, 07:10:31 PM »

The G31s I use for house batteries are deep cycle.
Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!