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Author Topic: Auto start for Gen  (Read 3800 times)
Sean
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« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2011, 08:37:12 PM »

Before you guys confuse Andy more he does not have a SW series Trace inverter thought you may like to know

Clifford, I think everyone knows that.  I also assume that Andy knows not all of the above applies to him.  As often happens, it seems we have multiple discussions going on in a single thread.

I think that says that the Trace will do it all but takes some significant set-up.  It says that the inverter has the required relays built in and the software to control the system.

Am I close?

Jim,

If you already have the three wires running from the genny to the Trace, it takes about five minutes to hook them up and another five to program it.  The SW will take care of everything.  I can talk you through it over the phone.  Piece of cake.

The one problem with the SW2512 auto start system is that it can't sense the genny running if for some goofy reason the genny doesn't put out AC power.  Dick Wright was very fearful of this, so he sold me a Gen Mate.  ...
Think about it, if the inverter doesn't get AC input it will continue its cranking cycle continuously, engaging the starter even if the the genny is running. ...   I never found a way to overcome this potential problem, which is why I purchased the Gen Mate from Wrico.  I do feel it is important because I'm at the mercy of my Todd transfer switch to throw the relays after the genny sends its power down the line. 

This is not accurate.

First off, the SW can sense the AC from a running genny if it has been connected as Trace intended.  The problem is that Dick and other installers tend to use only AC2 and put a transfer switch between the SW and the genny, which complicates things a bit.  This is due to a limitation imposed by the fact that the SW's internal transfer switch does not have a provision for switching the neutral, however there are other ways of dealing with this.

That said, even if you have an intervening transfer switch, the SW has settings to deal with it.  Figure out how long it normally takes your genny to turn over and set Maximum Crank Seconds to that number or that number plus one.  Now no matter whether the genny starts or not, that's the most cranking it will get.

If the genny does not start or the SW does not see good AC on AC2 within the programmed delay interval, it will send the STOP signal and try again.  It repeats this five times and if still unsuccessful provides an error and quits.

Note that even if the stop signal was not sent, it is impossible to crank a running generator because the pre-heat signal is always sent before cranking, and the pre-heat and stop signals are the same.

In order for this to work the SW generator on-delay and the transfer delay on the external transfer switch need to be coordinated.

Again, I can talk anyone through this configuration.  If you own an SW series inverter, no external generator start system is required.


-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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Full-timing in a 1985 Neoplan Spaceliner since 2004.
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« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2011, 06:38:31 AM »

Sean, as usual, thanks for great information!!!

I will take a rain check on the offer.  Have so many other projects (both bus and other) that it will need time to raise to the top.  Perhaps we can work on it if we meet up in Shoshone in March.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
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« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2011, 08:22:35 PM »

The one problem with the SW2512 auto start system is that it can't sense the genny running if for some goofy reason the genny doesn't put out AC power.  Dick Wright was very fearful of this, so he sold me a Gen Mate.  ...
Think about it, if the inverter doesn't get AC input it will continue its cranking cycle continuously, engaging the starter even if the the genny is running. ...   I never found a way to overcome this potential problem, which is why I purchased the Gen Mate from Wrico.  I do feel it is important because I'm at the mercy of my Todd transfer switch to throw the relays after the genny sends its power down the line.  

This is not accurate.

First off, the SW can sense the AC from a running genny if it has been connected as Trace intended.  The problem is that Dick and other installers tend to use only AC2 and put a transfer switch between the SW and the genny, which complicates things a bit.  This is due to a limitation imposed by the fact that the SW's internal transfer switch does not have a provision for switching the neutral, however there are other ways of dealing with this.

That said, even if you have an intervening transfer switch, the SW has settings to deal with it.  Figure out how long it normally takes your genny to turn over and set Maximum Crank Seconds to that number or that number plus one.  Now no matter whether the genny starts or not, that's the most cranking it will get.

If the genny does not start or the SW does not see good AC on AC2 within the programmed delay interval, it will send the STOP signal and try again.  It repeats this five times and if still unsuccessful provides an error and quits.

Note that even if the stop signal was not sent, it is impossible to crank a running generator because the pre-heat signal is always sent before cranking, and the pre-heat and stop signals are the same.

In order for this to work the SW generator on-delay and the transfer delay on the external transfer switch need to be coordinated.

Again, I can talk anyone through this configuration.  If you own an SW series inverter, no external generator start system is required.


-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com



Sean,

I had forgotten about the glow plug/stop sequence which would stop the genny in a subsequent crank attempt if it was running, but the Trace sensed "no AC 2".  That makes sense.  I wonder why Dick was so insistent about a separate gen start system?

Andy, sorry to hijak your thread since you don't have a Trace SW2512.

David
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 08:24:46 PM by David Anderson » Logged
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« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2011, 06:32:29 AM »

Which Murphy unit are we talking about, they have several. ASM 170 ?
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Steve Canzellarini
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1989 Prevost XL
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