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Author Topic: BIODIESEL  (Read 4893 times)
papatony
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« on: February 09, 2011, 06:10:21 PM »

  With fuel cost going has anyone tried Biodiesel, making it your self.  pros and cons.           Tony
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happycamperbrat
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2011, 07:37:29 PM »

My brother makes it for me because here in California it is impossible to get veggie oil unless you work in the restaurant industry. I have a 1983 MUI 2 stroke and it likes the stuff, but I have heard the newer computer engines or 4 strokes dont like veggie oil...
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The Little GTO is a 102" wide and 40' long 1983 GMC RTS II and my name is Teresa in case I forgot to sign my post
robertglines1
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2011, 08:34:27 PM »

Tony, above is a search function  type in biodiesel   and next box match any word. then search :has been discussed on board and even plans for home made system. Intresting and cost effective.Has limitations.  Happy Bussing   Bob
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Lee Bradley
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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2011, 08:56:59 PM »

Thought it was agreed to keep Biodiesel on OT
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papatony
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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2011, 09:45:13 PM »

I saw no requirements about this being restricted to off topic.  If you are that concerned about someone like my self (a newby) maybe you should post it some where new folks can find it . I just ask a question about a subject I was intrested in if you can't accept that then transfer it to off topic it dose  not bother me either way     Tony
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JohnEd
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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2011, 10:06:36 PM »

Papa,

You are OK with your question.  It will cross everyone's mind sooner or later and what better considerate, patient and knowledgeable place to pose a question than here and to this group.  Bob gave you a great answer and there are a whole slew of sites that are superb.  I have more than a passing interest and you are welcome to contact me by PM or email or phone even.  They are all listed.

I wouldn't rush to the conclusion that you have been rebuked in any way on this issue.  This is a very flat medium and you are safe to assume that the response was made in a highly positive or humorous vain than what it might seem.  Know you are welcome here and ask away on any bus related topic.  How and what do we feed these beasts is certainly related.  Try the OT search for bioD or WVO or SVO or Biodiesel, etc.  Visit "journey to Forever" as just one site.

John
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papatony
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« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2011, 10:50:17 PM »

Thanks John   I was so very excited when I found you guys. I had spent some 6 years in spare time converting this 4106 without  any help. its nice to have help from people as crazy as I am .  Tony
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scanzel
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2011, 03:01:03 AM »

A couple of back issues of BCM had an article on WVO. Late last year I think.
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Steve Canzellarini
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brando4905
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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2011, 05:36:54 AM »

Paptony,

We have never tried to set up a biodiesel processor to produce the fuel ourselves, but we sure have used a lot of it. What we did was change ALL rubber fuel lines that were in the bus to Boston Perfection synthetic lines, there are other brands as well. This is a minimum requirement to run the fuel in our buses because the biodiesel will ruin the rubber hoses and the rubber will wind up in the injectors. It is also recommended to upgrade to a little better filtration system, not all that necessary, but helps. Almost forgot, the real important thing is to have your fuel tanks sucked out and try to get them as clean as possible. If you start out with a dirty fuel system running bio, you'll be changing filters every few miles until it's clean. Biodiesel acts as a solvent which keeps the system clean, but also is a far superior lubricant over regular diesel.

However, we have not run B100 (pure bio) in a while due to the price rising higher than diesel, just can't afford it. I do fill up with B20 or whatever I can get at the few truck stops that still offer a blend.

I do like the alternative fuel, and it does great in our old DDs, but will not run it in my newer 2008 F550. We do still run B100 in the Kubota RTV with no problems whatsoever.

I'm definitely not a biodiesel expert, just sharing my experience, hope it helped a little.

Brandon

PS-- This is closer to a bus topic than let's say,...storms?




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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2011, 06:56:38 AM »

Bio Diesel!!!  I don't know of any rule that prohibits us from speaking about bio diesel.  I love it!  I run BD 100 in all my vehicles except the bus.  When I run BD I usually mix to 50/50.  I have not noticed a difference at all.  Everything else is bd100. 

I am currently setting the bus up for a 2 tank system but have had some issues getting some specialty work done.  To the tune of 8 months waiting on a tank that I already paid for.  Long story, brother in law favor, don't want to go into that. 

What questions do you have about bd, I will do what I can to help you.
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2011, 07:59:00 AM »

I have read most of the thread on this subject and find it very interesting.  My son-in-law has a very sophisticated "still" and still has had problems with the filter system in his Dodge truck. He recently went to a final process of putting the fuel through a centrifuge.  That seems to have made the fuel very acceptable.  Living in CO  limits the amount of the year you can use the fuel.  His aux. tank has a heat exchanger (engine coolant) but he has not hooked it up.

He has done quite a bit of trial and error on the truck filter system.  Not sure where he is with that, but for sure you want an auxiliary between the bio tank and the engine filters.

Some folks use straight heated waste vegetable oil.  That blows my mind.  I can't conceive that you can filter all of the crap out of the oil.  In addition, the viscosity seems high to me unless heated to a considerable temperature.

If you approach the project with the thought that you will make refined WVO based bio, you will be spending a ton of money.  All of the equipment, even owner fabricated, will cost of ton.  MY S-I-L does it correctly and I would guess he has over $1000 in the equipment he has now and maybe half again that amount if you consider that several parts of the system have been redesigned and/or rebuilt.  Then you have to build some sort of collection system.  The still has some potential for safety issues and the location has to be in an area that is remote to your house.  Latly you must find a source for the large amount of menthol and other chemicals and that can be a challenge (some of the same stuff that meth folks use).

Now to my question.  I see lots of folks saying that B100 (especially  that based on WVO) is OK in mechanical engines but not electronic engines.  Does anyone have documentation for that thesis?  I am tempted to use some of my S-I-Ls brew, but can't stand the thought of yet another engine issue Angry

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
wal1809
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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2011, 08:51:32 AM »

Hello safety I am confused a little bit.  If he is brewing then he is making BioD  If he is heating the tank then he is running straight veg oil or WVO.  Bio D does not have to go through a centrifuge nor be heated.  THe best thing for WVO is time.  Set it in the barn and leave it for 6 months and use the top stuff.  When you get to the bottom then start making BD with the nasty stuff.
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happycamperbrat
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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2011, 09:20:24 AM »

I did a bunch of research a few years ago from various studies that are posted on the web about the diesel engines which would be compatible with svo (which initially is what I wanted to run). I was in the market for a bus and read a lot and asked a lot of questions. I didnt go with the newer computer models or direct spray injectors because I was told it would ruin my engine in fairly short order. I never did use veggie oil because it was too hard to get in Cally, but instead my brother started making the bio and so I have just been using that. Even with the bio (which is supposed to be much better then wvo), as I recall it is not so good on many of the computers because it causes false readings and can hurt fuel sensors.

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The Little GTO is a 102" wide and 40' long 1983 GMC RTS II and my name is Teresa in case I forgot to sign my post
Red Rider
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« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2011, 09:30:59 AM »

I feel that it's OK to discuss Fuel Tanks and Fuel Pumps and Fuel Filters, Whats wrong with talking about the Fuel, Bio or WVO or anything else?
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Mike AKA; Red Rider 4106-1885
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« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2011, 09:59:05 AM »

Wal1809, my S-I-L takes WVO and "refines" it to the point that it is a very high level home version of industrial B100.  I can't explain the process entirely, but he has to heat the WVO combined with a mixture of methanol and sodium hydroxide to separate the water and glycerin out of the WVO.  He has added a distillation process to capture some of the methanol. 

I am way over my head on this one, but I have talked to him about his process many times and I think this paper describes his process:

http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/prod_quality.pdf

He uses the refined bio diesel directly in warm weather.  He had some pretty significant filter clogging even after using sophisticated processes and had to go to the centrifuge to further improve the fuel.

I assure you that you need to heat the refined bio diesel at temperature less than, I am guessing here, 30 degrees F.  This is true even with commercial bio diesel.  Even B10 and B20 can cause problems at temperatures below zero (again a guess on my part).  Our local school system tried to go green a few years ago and they were using B10 or B20 commercial fuel.  We had temperatures in the minus 10 degree range and most of the buses would not start.  Of those that started, many stalled part way through the route.

Iowa, of course, is big on Bio diesel using state and they had the same problems that same year.  Not sure what they do now.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
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