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Author Topic: Out of the shop but does not quite seem the same...  (Read 7900 times)
thejumpsuitman
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« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2011, 08:20:13 AM »

Let's be fair to Williams, how many of those days in Montgomery have absolutely nothing to do with them?

We prefer to slag a vendor's reputation on here AFTER they have failed you.

You aren't there yet.

We also have no way of knowing the original terms of engagement and what limits you may have put on their attempts to HELP YOU so far...

This isn't your average internet slag fest, this is BCM.

This community likes to think just a little more highly of ourselves.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

They are certainly getting a chance to get it right and I am not slagging them.  As for the original terms, they were simple.  I took the bus in smoking and running like crap last Monday morning.  I left it with instructions for them to fix whatever needed fixing, putting no limits on their efforts, but asked for an estimate first.  I got it back smoking and running like crap.  They said the miss was gone, it is very obviously not.  I told them I was from out of town and was stalled here in Montgomery and needed to get home asap.  They ordered the parts by standard shipping service which took 2 days extra without even give me the option to have parts shipped overnight, which I would have gladly paid for.  I have had to call them for all updates and even go by there in person.  They simply have not done right by me thus far, but I am aware of their excellent reputation and am gladly giving them a chance to prove themselves. 

As to my obvious frustration, walk a mile in my shoes.  I have been twiddling my thumbs for 11 days and lost about $2,000 in income since I have been stuck here.  I would have simply left the bus, gone home, and come back for it later if they would have told me it would take this long.  I have been put off day by day and that has been aggravating.
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« Reply #46 on: February 24, 2011, 10:01:28 AM »

Marc,

Bus Warrior is right.  If this isn't vendor bashing, it is borderline.  Most every guy here, or at least the vast majority of them, have been where you are right now at one time or another.  IE:  We have already walked in your shoes.  Drop the Lone Ranger Syndrome and you will be a lot better for it.  You are not the first guy to have problems with a vendor.  

The paint shop promised my coach in three weeks, I got it 12 weeks later, it happens all the time.  As for the final bill, it had to be litigated in the end.  I had a vendor put some windshields in my bus, 59 days to install two windshields!  The rest of the unsavory details I will not go into.  I have ordered parts, gave them specific model numbers and the whole nine yards, then they ship me the WRONG PARTS and then refuse to take them back or pay the return freight.

It happens to all of us, you are no exception to the rule.

If you want overnight then it is up to YOU to tell them you want it, they are running a business, they don't have time to second guess every customer that comes into their shop.  Three years ago while shut down in Atlanta and eating at the Waffle House (all three meals per day) I discovered that part of busing was not my idea of fun.  But Williams called me regularly and kept me updated on what was going on ... I didn't have to go down there and rag them about it.  

Having done business with Williams on more than one occasion, I can tell you this (again) they are reputable and they will meet or exceed your expectations.

You need to lighten up.

BCO  
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 10:12:29 AM by boxcarOkie » Logged

thejumpsuitman
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« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2011, 10:18:20 AM »

Marc,

Bus Warrior is right.  If this isn't vendor bashing, it is borderline.  Most every guy here, or at least the vast majority of them, have been where you are right now at one time or another.  IE:  We have already walked in your shoes.  Drop the Lone Ranger Syndrome and you will be a lot better for it.  You are not the first guy to have problems with a vendor.  

The paint shop promised my coach in three weeks, I got it 12 weeks later, it happens all the time.  As for the final bill, it had to be litigated in the end.  I had a vendor put some windshields in my bus, 59 days to install two windshields!  The rest of the unsavory details I will not go into.  I have order parts, give them specific model numbers and the whole nine yards, then they ship me the WRONG PART and then refuse to take it back or pay the freight.

It happens to all of us, you are no exception to the rule.

If you want overnight then it is up to YOU to tell them you want it, they are running a business, they don't have time to second guess every customer that comes into their shop.  Three years agof while shut down in Atlanta and eating at the Waffle House (all three meals per day) I discovered that part of busing was not my idea of fun.  

But Williams called me regularly and kept me updated on what was going on ... I didn't have to go down there and rag them about it.  Having done business with Williams on more than one occasion, I can tell you this (again) they are reputable and they will meet or exceed your expectations.

You need to lighten up.

BCO  

I'm glad you had a good experience with them.  Mine wasn't as good.  I'll leave it at that.  I'm not trying to bash anybody, and I don't think I have.  Just stating what happened and trying to deal with it.  Now that I have some closure on it, I am ready to put this behind me and get this thing fixed.  

Marc
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 10:33:15 AM by thejumpsuitman » Logged

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« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2011, 10:39:25 AM »

Marc , good luck hope it is fixed soon! As many have said it is the beginning of the journey ,there will be lots questions for those that have been there done that.  And as always the BCM family will be there to help in any way possible. Give williams a chance and get back on the road to home, kick sand on the drawn lines and enjoy your new bus..............lj
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« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2011, 10:43:52 AM »

Just to wrap up this thread, they called me back saying they re-ran the rack and that it is now running smoothly, but still smoking like crazy under acceleration.  They think it has a cracked piston ring and they don't want to go into it any further.  They said "the engine is not monetarily worth repairing" and would rather just replace the engine.  They are talking $15,000.  Obviously out of the question for me.

Now that I know what's going on, I can proceed toward a resolution.  I started a new thread asking for advice since it's a new topic.
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« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2011, 02:08:34 PM »

And I quote!
Quote from: Busted Knuckle
Marc,
WW Williams is a stand up company that has locations all over the Eastern/Southern US and if they did wrong it will be warrantied @ ANY OF THEIR LOCATIONS!

As a matter of fact from my personal experiences the second location will go way above and beyond the norm to ensure that all is well and you are happy when you leave!

I have had many things done by them on the road and they have ALWAYS treated us right! (even if we were light in the wallet when we left! They still gave us our $ worth in excellent service! I long longer worry about how much it is until they are done, because # 1 it has to be fixed & # 2 I ain't there to do it myself!)
Grin  BK  Grin

Get it out of there and head on up the highway! Once out on the road you will learn just how bad it really is. Then you can take it to another Williams shop and explain the situation and call the customer service hot-line! I can assure you that the "company" will see to it that you get treated right so as to NOT DAMAGE their reputation! BTDT have the T-Shirts to prove it! Wink Just ask anyone who knows me, or go back and read some of my past posts! I'm like you, I'm a slow fuse but once lit look out you'll see flames all the way over yonder from where I am!

But in all honesty Williams has been one of the few places that I'm still welcomed at when I walk in the door! I have had troubles several times and going to another location with a good but insistent attitude will go a long way!
Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2011, 05:52:36 PM »

Owning an old bus comes with it's pitfalls. We all know it. Sorry to hear about your problems. The majority of us that own these ole girls have quite a bit of mechanical knowledge and the place to work on them. We also know that we may have to write a big check for a rebuilt down the road. It's just the way it is. I'm not slamming you in anyway but this isn't a game for the faint of heart. We may save some money versus the 1/2 million dollar rigs but the majority of us also have the financial resources to afford that new rebuild if need be. Best of luck....
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thejumpsuitman
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« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2011, 06:22:09 PM »

Owning an old bus comes with it's pitfalls. We all know it. Sorry to hear about your problems. The majority of us that own these ole girls have quite a bit of mechanical knowledge and the place to work on them. We also know that we may have to write a big check for a rebuilt down the road. It's just the way it is. I'm not slamming you in anyway but this isn't a game for the faint of heart. We may save some money versus the 1/2 million dollar rigs but the majority of us also have the financial resources to afford that new rebuild if need be. Best of luck....

Well I went in with my eyes open, so what can really I say about having a breakdown? 

Not that I'm made of money, but my frustration during this episode has had more to do with wasted time and lack of options than anything else.  I have to admit that I was not prepared for the possibility of having to wait around for this period of time.  Now I know it can happen.  And when I learn something, I learn the heck out of it. Grin

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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2011, 06:45:30 PM »

Quote from: thejumpsuitman
Now I know it can happen.  And when I learn something, I learn the heck out of it. Grin

Wink  Grin
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2011, 06:54:14 PM »

Actually for me the time issue would have me going berzerk!! Granted I as well as everybody else doesn't want to part with that size of a chunk of change but we do know that going into the game. Still beats writing a $500,000 dollar check for something that you have to have worked on also! But I do think that they should have been a tad better as far as the time issues or letting you know what it would be. Just best of luck. Sure hate to see it after all the work you have put into even buying a bus.
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« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2011, 07:19:03 PM »

Your right,, most of us have been through it with the vendors. Marc should be able to voice his negative experience with Williams as well as all that have had good experiences. Just because you go to Mc Donalds in one state and get good service does not mean you are going to get that same service in another state. It is the same with a big corporation in the deisel industry. Me personally, I would not take my bus to that perticular williams shop. Good 2 stroke mechanics are hard to find now. I know I have be taken for thousands of dollars and was in no better situation when I left as when I got there.  What is he supposed to do go blow off steam to his wife and tell her the bus just cost them couple thousand dollars and it is not fixed and I dont know if it will even make it the rest of the way home. Then guess what happens we just lost another fellow bus nut. Marc I have been following your post waiting for the outcome. There was some good advice just move on and dont dwell on the past its done and over. I just finished up a lawsuit with a shop here locally (that I won) but it took 2 years in court and lots of my time. Even though I won I wish I would have just walked away and forgot about it. MARC...THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP!!!!
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 07:24:49 PM by chart1 » Logged

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thejumpsuitman
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« Reply #56 on: February 24, 2011, 08:18:16 PM »

I wasn't trying to throw Williams under the bus... Cheesy  They did take me right back in this morning and had me running as smooth as possible within a couple hours.  Their reputation for standing by their work is sound...

However they should have had their 2-stroke veteran on it in the first place, not as a last resort 11 days later when I had to make a stink.  They also told me today that they did not do a compression test, which is contrary to what I understood their policy to be.  

Anyway, I have no hard feelings.  They were a great bunch of guys. (Some of the nicest people in the world live in Alabama)  I'm just glad to finally have some answers and be on the way to getting it straightened out.  Ready to put the frustration behind me.

They are obviously not accustomed to dealing with individuals/public, and I as a member of the public am not accustomed to dealing with a company like that.  Greyhound and Trailways can afford to put a bus on the shelf for a month or so.  Unfortunately when our bus breaks down, we don't have another one to jump into until it's fixed.

Marc
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 08:24:27 PM by thejumpsuitman » Logged

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« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2011, 11:06:02 PM »

  A semi (pun intended) related question regards truck stops. I have noticed in many of the bigger truck stops, off site service trucks come out to service semi trucks on site, right out in the back lot of the truck stop. Just how involved can you get working on your Bus out in back of a truck stop??? Just thinking out loud here, lol. Or in this case, to keep it on topic, would Williams (or another outfit) come out and work on a Bus at a truck stop?

  For me, having a large motorhome type vehicle you can get easily serviced and repaired, if needed, is key. And being able to take advantage of as many resources as possible puts a lot of peace of mind into the equation.

  Jumpsuit, I would hit the road now. Forcing it any further wont likely help you any further. And honestly, the next Williams up the road might just fix you up right. Auto mechanics just love to outsmart the last guy. I cant imagine these motors are that hard to diagnose if someones in the business of working on them. I am concerned about the comp test. If that is in fact standard practice, where you charged for it? 

 
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« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2011, 12:24:24 AM »

I didn't read anything in your posts that should have been considered derogatory to that Williams shop.  If they "don't" order parts by next day air then they should have an specific instruction by the owner to waste that much time.  Not the other way around.  What would you do in their place?  Are you so cute that they would want you hanging around?  Well then.   They should want you back on the road and out of their shop, also.  Gone but happily.

If they had the bus for that long and gave it back to you needing a simple run of the rack then they should be ashamed.  Are they telling you that they ran the rack and never even test ran the engine or are they saying that they were unable to diagnose a "miss" run of the rack.  Neither is complementary and I am asking if there is another way to look at this particular facet?  This shop in this instance did not live up to the Williams reputation and meet corp policy.  They diagnosed the problem quickly and corrected it promptly when you brought it back and they should have done that in the first place.  Everybody makes mistakes and everybody has bad days and I have bad months but I am not charging.  You don't get Kudos for fixing a problem you generated no matter how quickly you get it straightened out.  Considering how much time they wasted, if they did, they owe you at this point.

You were told that a compression check was done, as I understand it.  Clifford told us that in the type of mech failure such as you experienced any shop SHOULD run a compression test.  They finally admitted that they had, in fact, not run that test despite the paper work specifically stating that that test had been run.  Did I miss something?  Wouldn't be all that unusual.

You asked them to diagnose the problems and allow you to auth repair after getting a quote.  They seem to be telling you, at this juncture, that your engine is so badly worn as to be not salvageable.  If it was that bad then why did they work on it at all?  They seem to have taken your $2,000 and then told you that you need to give then another $15,000 and they will throw in the disposal charge for the engine they just repaired without justification.  I must be missing an awful lot here cause people I KNOW are great guys have chastised you for being impatient and trashing a "Good shop".  I have tried to stay within the bounds of asking for clarification and I think you did the same thing.  I didn't get that anything from what you said that you were anything other than asking for advice, clarification or just venting.  NADA.  I am here for all of those things and everybody else here has been consistently the same motivated.

If I were you I would limp to the next Williams shop and tell my tale briefly and succinctly to the manager Himself.  No sour grapes...just ask for help and guidance.   Maybe Clifford would talk to the next shop about your circumstance as he talks truck, and DD and Cummins and everything else it would seem.  That way some of the green you have already shelled out might get a second washing and I think that has already been mentioned.  The good news is that the shop you had work on your engine has a trans cont. rep as a superb outfit and they evidently take their reputation seriously.

Please know that I am not alone in seeing you as another Knut in a jam that is worried an venting and casting about for answers and advice.  I am not alone in this opinion.  I honestly feel that this will all work out better than you think.  I also think that you lunched a jug as Clifford said he suspected.  The ring thing makes sense and so does a valve but they have scopes they can insert in the air box ports and inspect the innards of a cylinder for damage.  And then there is the compression test.

Worst case in an in-frame.  Some here that worked in the trucking industry have said that in situations like this that the repaired the head and replaced the cylinder and then rolled the bearings to see if they needed repaired and sent the truck out.  People are aghast at that kind of talk.


Good luck Buddy Knut,  Keep us posted,

John
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thejumpsuitman
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« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2011, 06:50:16 AM »

All I have said is what actually happened.  If it sounds like I was bashing them, then they did it to themselves by the way they dealt with me.  Since the thread is lingering, and since my dealings with them are over, AND since I think others who come through that area have the right to know, I think I have the "right" to comment on the Montgomery, Alabama W.W.Williams branch.

If they are a national chain with common policy, they should have done the compression check first since I actually brought the bus in to be diagnosed and repaired, regardless of what it was.  They admitted that they did not run any kind of diagnostics, so they were not following company policy right off the bat.  In fact, yesterday when I specifically asked about a compression check, the mechanic said "Well, that's really hard to do, and it wouldn't tell us what is wrong."  I am not making that up! Whether or not I was charged for it, I can't tell from the bill.  

One issue I have not even brought up is my tail lights.  I asked them if they could see why some were not working.  They told me they had an "electrical guru" who could look at them.  But later when I asked if the guru had found the problem, they told me that electrical issues were not in the scope of what they do there... HUH?  

On the subject of ordering the parts... After I first dropped it off I didn't want to hound them, so I waited until late in the day to call.  That's when they said they had ordered the injector, so I didn't even get a chance to request overnight.  I guess I though that maybe they even had one in stock.  I didn't know an 8V71 was so rare in today's world.  I actually would have offered to drive to Atlanta myself to pick it up had I known it would take 2 days to get it.  But in the entire 11 day scheme of things, this wasn't really a big deal.

But after installing the injector, they then had to order a blower gasket.  I don't know why they didn't order that at the same time as the injector, but then again I don't know if you can re-use those or not.  Anyway, I found this out when I dropped by in person last Friday afternoon.  When I arrived, they said they had to order it and it would be in Monday.  I reminded them that I was from out of town and had to get back asap, so they sent a worker across town to pick it up instead so they could get it done before the weekend.  

I called again near closing time to see if it was ready, they said yes and that they were test driving it.  They called me back a few minutes later saying it was smoking heavily and that to fix it right would be very expensive because they had no idea what was wrong with it.  I'M SORRY, BUT ISN'T THAT YOUR JOB?...  TO FIND OUT WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT?...  AND ISN'T THAT WHY I BROUGHT IT TO YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE?

When we got there to pick it up, the exhaust was still broken and hanging off and the engine still skipping (which I couldn't tell because it was so loud).  When I asked if I should drive it that way, the worker said...

"I can't tell you because I don't want to be liable."  

(Sorry, that's not very helpful!)  

I then said, "I am not trying to hold you responsible for anything, but I need to know if I am going to damage the engine."  

He finally said, "I wouldn't if it was mine, but I can't really tell you what to do."  

So I called Clifford while the bus was running and he said...

"No Way!  Do not drive it sucking exhaust!"  

Let me back up one second... When I first dropped the bus off, it was explained to them that the exhaust had come apart and I wanted them to fix that too.  They ignored that whole issue until I insisted they keep it to fix it.

So I asked them to keep the bus and repair the disconnected exhaust pipe which they said they could do Monday.  It was at this time that the young mechanic told me that he had personally run the rack, but had never worked on this kind of engine before and had never even seen an 8V71 before.

I heard nothing all day Monday, so late in the day I called to see if it was done, they said there is no way it could be done by the end of the day.  Okay.  Tuesday they called me late in the day saying it was done.  By the time we got there, the mechanics were all gone and they were ready to close the gate.  As soon as we pulled out and started down the road, I knew it still was not right.  It still had a dead miss.  That's when I started this thread.

The entire next day I spent plugging a hole in the muffler myself in a church parking lot to see if maybe what I was hearing was an exhaust leak.  It was not.  Got the manager on the phone early the next morning, took it back and their veteran mechanic had it running smoothly within a couple hours.  Of course, the deeper issues had not been addressed or properly diagnosed, except to say to me that basically "your engine is screwed up and it's going to cost more than it's worth to fix it".

All of my dealings with W.W. Williams in Montgomery happened over the course of 11 days, they had it for 10 of those days, the only day they didn't have was the day I was gooping up the muffler.  

Just because the company has a good national reputation does NOT mean I am wrong!  And it does not mean they are right!  My experience with them has been decidedly negative and I highly doubt taking it to another location will get me any closer to getting it fixed without costing an arm and a leg.  

I am sure they will tell me that I paid for the repair that was done and it didn't fix the problem. That's basically the attitude I got from this branch.  But in actuality, I took it there to be diagnosed and to get an estimate on a proper repair.  This did NOT happen.  Instead they took a stab and a guess at what was wrong, hoping it would fix it, and I now have to start all over again.  Believe it or not, I am really not bitter, but I am sure frustrated and don't feel like I got a lot for my money!

Marc
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 07:45:47 AM by thejumpsuitman » Logged

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