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Author Topic: Smoking. Cracked ring...??? What to do  (Read 65751 times)
boxcarOkie
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« Reply #105 on: February 28, 2011, 04:30:46 PM »

"best of luck to you Marc some times your the bug and next time you are the windshield"

So true. 

A friend of mine called today, he was at Cat in Birmingham, having some work done on his Pete, and the (ahem) "Technician" leans his hood over on this long nose, and let's go and smacks the radiator on a tool box in front of the truck.

Damages all that pretty Alum and what knot.  So he goes and gets the manager and shows it to him (about $800-900 all total in damages) and asks about a replacement or repair.

The manager looks at him, says, "Accidents happen."  Turns and walks away.

Maybe it is just Alabama? 

BCO
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rampeyboy
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« Reply #106 on: February 28, 2011, 04:45:38 PM »

So are you saying this repair would have cost $4500 if done properly at the first place? If so, then maybe applying the money spent there to the repairs done in Alabama would be OK less the tow bill. OTOH, if there was additional damage done, or other expense incurred (tow bills, hotels, loss of income, etc) then that's another story. Looks like to me the second repair should be on WW since you paid the first time in good faith that the repairs were satisfactory completed. Either way this definitely leaves a mark..for WW and for you.

Boyce
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Boyce Rampey
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thejumpsuitman
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« Reply #107 on: February 28, 2011, 04:46:38 PM »

It just does not pay to waste your time or energy trying to squeeze something out of the unwilling...  Money, Love, etc.

In my experience, the times I have gotten red hot over something, it has cost me more than I would have gained in the form of a loss of my peace.  I have gotten crazy mad over "wrongs" and it physically wears me down and out.  

I will call the regional manager and tell him what I think would be right but he will do what he will do.  
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #108 on: February 28, 2011, 04:47:35 PM »

Quote from: JohnEd
I disagree with BK, and that is rare.  Don't mention this site or his loosing other customers.  And get a SOBs advice on paying the current bill or anything else.  You are out of your depth and I am out of your depth, as well.  Time for the A team.

Sorry about how this is working out for you.  Quit worrying and let the Pro earn his keep.

John

JohnEd,
By all means you have the right to disagree with me, and I even respect that you do.

But to set the record straight I never said mention this site! (or any other!)
"Ah, I'd be on the phone with the guy that called you and let him know MANY of us experienced as well as inexperienced busnuts are following this ordeal and not liking what we're seeing/hearing at all! I for one have always thought they were a better company than it is starting to appear to be."

Now that said they will ask that is for sure, but all he has to say is I have many friends who are as crazy as I am and they own buses too. We all belong to an International "club". (which technically we do! we're all memebers here and we have members from several CONTINENTS not just countrys!

Grin  BK  Grin

And Marc I agree with Clifford as bad as I hate to say it. It sounds like you'll be $ ahead to just go ahead and have them fix it.

Now that said, you still maybe able to get more of a break on the price, but I wouldn't bet the bus title on it.

And as far as Coachnet only paying for the tow to the nearest place of repair.(as a former vendor I know there are exceptions!)
And you my friend qualify for one of them! You had it towed to a location that was connected to the last place that worked on it, as it should be a warranty repair. But tell them that they won't cover the tow under warranty! (not lying here!)

Good luck and I hope you feel better about making a decision after sleeping on it!
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
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Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
thejumpsuitman
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« Reply #109 on: February 28, 2011, 04:48:37 PM »

So are you saying this repair would have cost $4500 if done properly at the first place? I
Boyce

Yes, $4,500 minus the tow, of course.  And that is assuming there is no bottom end damage.
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Cary and Don
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« Reply #110 on: February 28, 2011, 04:52:52 PM »

I'm no mechanic,  but if they didn't hook up the exhaust,  Maybe, they didn't tighten down the fuel lines to the injector when they  changed it?  Wouldn't that pour fuel into the oil? Wouldn't it still miss?

Don and Cary
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thejumpsuitman
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« Reply #111 on: February 28, 2011, 05:07:56 PM »

I'm no mechanic,  but if they didn't hook up the exhaust,  Maybe, they didn't tighten down the fuel lines to the injector when they  changed it?  Wouldn't that pour fuel into the oil? Wouldn't it still miss?

Don and Cary
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Nothing would surprise me.  The oil level rose a gallon somehow.  I guess maybe it was the "oil fairy".
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« Reply #112 on: February 28, 2011, 05:52:09 PM »

. . .my current bill was $2,100, which includes a tow of $975.  And it would be another $800 to pull the head off for further diagnostics. . . .

I remember the mentioned close working clearance, but I still can't imagine that it took $1100 worth of diagnostic work on a 71 to not yet specifically pinpointed the problem.

This engine needed two relatively simple tests:
  • The mentioned compression/leakdown test of at least the suspect cylinder.
  • A leak-down test of the fuel supply circuit to determine if fuel was bleeding off internally.
How could that possibly be billed out at a grand?

A key question is if it hitting on eight when it left Montgomery?

I'm sure the defective injector is long gone to core land.
Jumpsuit - Did you get a show-N-tell of the bad injector?

Best luck Jumpsuit
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 06:02:06 PM by TedsBUSted » Logged

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« Reply #113 on: February 28, 2011, 05:59:51 PM »

BK,

Thanks, No worries.

The problem here is who is not involved......the SOB.  He does all that worrying and head scratching and ruminating.  Make sure he is working on kon tin gency.  When he writes or calls and asks for the best deal they can give you it will mean more than your actions.  Tell him to assure the Prez that "$#!% happens to people" and I am the $#!% that is going to happen to you people unless you compensate my client.  At that point they will only have to give him a couple grand in legal fees".

Here is the current problem as I see it:  A shop can screw you with you standing there looking at them.  If they want you they "got'cha".  These people have demonstrated that they are not trustworthy and seem to be working in you specific disinterest.  The first shop screwed you royal.  The crankcase fuel leak happened "after" they worked on the fuel system and that would seem to put them squarely on the hook for those damages.  No body has come right out and said it but diluted oil causes accelerated wear and premature failures.  You may need an in-frame and who in your present circle of friends is going t give straight info on that?  W?  Come on.  One Knut is on record as warning you that dilution of the oil with fuel turns the oil into "water thin oil".@  The current shop is saying that your oil is "not fuel contaminated" and that is most assuredly to cover the corporate butt at your expense. I fail to appreciate why anyone in this circumstance would "allow" this crew to turn a wrench on $18K overhaul headed engine.  Any mech in that shop is going to be introduced to you as the unreasonable cuss of a customer that has everybody working for nothing.  Bet on your having a piss poor rep in that shop.  And like I said....even with you watch'n an sleep'n with your baby like you did the last time.  Lot of good that did you and you lost a couple weeks of pay in the process.  I really want you to protect yourself and get off this hook.

Here is what I think you should have:

Rebuilt/overhauled engine if a tear down of bearings shows wear or an oil analysis shows metals.  They did it and you should get the benefit of the doubt and the Judge will be looking at who tried to do the right thing.

All tow charges including the next one that gets you into the next shop.

All repairs to your engine if an in-frame or overhaul isn't warranted.

Exhaust sys work.

Compensation for the month of work you have lost.

$20 K for legal fees that you have bills for at least.  That much or double cause in this system that is the only way they LEARN.  Cost Ford $112M in Punity award before they were willing to fix the Pinto exploding gas tank and that was money that went to the dead victum's father for lost affection.  Don't feel sorry for them....feel sorry for your attorney cause he has to face these dirt wads every day and then people hate him for succeeding in your behalf.  What would you say if you learned that W had a case like yours a week and that was the east coast alone.  I haven't a clue but given their current attitude I suspect that you have company and your SOB will uncover that.

And whatever else your SOB gets from the sob that brought your SOB into his life.  From the Bronx Tale:   "you see my face?  You look at me.  I am the man that did this to you.  If I ever see you again I will know that you have a death wish."  Subtle and gentle like, always.

I am loath to involve an attorney in my affairs in any way.  really, I am.  But when I have exhausted all other avenues I get serious by fetching up a Gladiator.  Then I sit back and watch and shake my head in amusement.  Now any Dr or DDS or Corp will hate my guts for advocating legal action.  Just imagine what you would be getting if you had no recourse to legal action in TORT court.  Imagine what the "good conscience" on the other side would give you.  "$#!% Happens"?  Is that all?  That is not the way I conduct my life and dealings.

You need a reputable shop that will cooperate with your SOB.  Make sure they know that they will be doing all the work and will be paid for testifying.  Make sure that it is an honest shop with a solid reputation as well as well as having the skills.  Really and no joke....honest as the day is long.  A good shop will be interested in cleaning up the business environment by telling only the truth.  When you walk in say something like "I have been having a dickens of a time with W and I hope you can resolve my engine problems".   If the guy says "you and a couple hundred others" then you are on firm footing.

They admitted culpability when they offered to compensate you for the last bill and the plot thickens from there.  I suspect that you will have to settle with them to get your bus back but I would want my SOB to ell me what my options are in that state.  A mechanics lean can be "unleaned" but it takes a SOB.  I know that in Ca it used to be that if you paid a bill it was assumed that you accepted the deal and conditions.  The trick was to pay by check and annotate the check that "payment is being made under protest".  Then it ain't over and you can actually be awarded that cost pending court findings.  An SOB told me that......"always pay, John.  Always pay.  But do it the right way."  A witness helps in every instance.

It might cost you a few grand up front and for the time being but you at least would have hope of coming out "made whole".  I will repeat one warning "do not let that crew work on your bus under any circumstance".   Talk to the shop you will be going into before you do and make sure your SOB gives them the nod.

Only go with a contingency arrangement and maybe you want to give him 40% of the settlement over you actuals.  50%?  I can well imagine that my discussion will nauseate many here and I regret that, truly.  We will see how many more "ignore" me.

Fuxx!    Fuxx back!  I am done now.

John the mellow and sweating rejection
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 06:13:04 PM by JohnEd » Logged

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luvrbus
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« Reply #114 on: February 28, 2011, 06:00:44 PM »

A compression test on a 2 stroke is a major under taking there is no such thing as a leak down test each cylinders is tested while the engine is running at 900 rpm with that injector removed but you can get a reading of some sort if it has no pressure while turning it over with the starter that cylinder is bad fwiw  


good luck
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 06:08:42 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #115 on: February 28, 2011, 06:10:40 PM »

What a big time pain in the arse indeed! I guess in my business when I make a mistake I work pretty hard with the customer to make it right because I eat breakfast with him sometimes and he has helped me feed my family for years and I have him. Love the small town life. I don't enjoy what has happened as of late with dealing with larger companies and the products they are trying to shove down our throats however. I have little knowledge of major diesel repair shops such as the one in question and hopefully never will. But without a doubt large companies that I have dealt with for years and years are really starting to drop the ball. Normal stuff that you always got because it was the top of the line has slowly but surely eroded into crap. I feel sorry for what you are going through indeed. Hopefully you have the financial ability to get it squared away as it looks to be a pretty nice bus. Like I stated several days ago. These busses are not for the feint of heart. Even finding someone knowledgeable in 2 strokers is getting harder and harder to find. Thank God for someone like Cliff who you can't put a price on for the $$ he has saved mostly everyone of us. Knowledge, it is way more valuable than experience. Unfortunately you are getting the experience end at the moment. Best of luck...
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« Reply #116 on: February 28, 2011, 06:12:27 PM »

  Dangnabbit. Someone here can tell me, can you see the top of the piston through the transfer ports with the side inspection cover removed? Can you mirror around in back and see the rings? With a bore scope, can you inspect the valves?

  After thats done, can you, or can you not, do a leak down test to check compression losses???

  I am having a hard time with a company this big (over 30 service centers nationwide) not doing this basic work and having solid answers.

  Back to Montgomery. Does it really cost $2100 to R&R an injector and run the rack? Just what was the amount of work that was done? Is there flat rate time tables on Detroits, or is it all straight time?

  Maybe were not getting the whole story from Marc, but he sounds believable. Marc, and perhaps a moderator can advise, can you put a pic of the invoice up? That might tell someone here something that nobody else is seeing??

  I think I share the sadness we are all feeling, and the fear it could be one of us. The more you can share of the event the more help someone might be able to offer, and the more guidance we can someday offer someone else.

  
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JohnEd
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« Reply #117 on: February 28, 2011, 06:21:51 PM »

OOOOWWWWW!   What a bunch of rabble rousers.    Jeeesh.  Have you no sympathy for the BIG guy?  What about the banks?  Now there is a tear jerker.  I think this bad attitude starts at the very top and trickles down.  The only thing that I know of that trickles down is the shiX and we are getting that from every quadrant.
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The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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luvrbus
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« Reply #118 on: February 28, 2011, 06:31:11 PM »

Williams dropped the ball on this one and they know it who knows what the outcome will be they will be open for discussion and JohnEd you mention lawyer all converstation will stop you can bank on that ask your friend at SOD what happens when people say they are going to get a lawyers
Marc is keeping his cool and that will prevail in the long run he may not get what all he wants but it will help.
Word of wisdom for you 2 stroke guys if the shop guy has a Pro/Link in his pocket run like hell, now if he is holding a long handle off set wrench hang on to him lol

good luck
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TedsBUSted
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« Reply #119 on: February 28, 2011, 06:37:30 PM »

A compression test on a 2 stroke is a major under taking there is no such thing as a leak down test each cylinders is tested while the engine is running at 900 rpm with that injector removed but you can get a reading of some sort if it has no pressure while turning it over with the starter that cylinder is bad fwiw  

good luck

Howdy Luvrbus,

I meant a cheap and dirty basic diagnosis, that's all that actually was needed here. Just enough diagnostic work to determine if the one dead cylinder had a chance of hitting again without a tear-down. With an engine having a dead hole, there's no sense in going into in-depth evaluation until the bad cylinder is diagnosed.

Basically - Lock the engine with the piston covering the ports, flip the valvetrain, pull the injector, air charge the cylinder. If major air is blown into the box or crankcase, it's at least a piston problem - very major  tear down required. If air exhausts through the port, it's at least a valve problem - at least head has to come off. The mechanic could bop each valve to try to pinpoint the bad valve or to get a sense if it's burned or bent or held off seat. If the valve seems bent or off-seat from foreign object, the head pull may likely  lead to more major work. From this basic testing the next move can be decided.

The diagnostics that were actually needed  just don't seem like $1100 worth to me.

Ted
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 06:43:00 PM by TedsBUSted » Logged

Bus polygamist. Always room for another, especially ‘04 or ‘06 are welcome. NE from Chicago, across the pond.
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