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Author Topic: Smoking. Cracked ring...??? What to do  (Read 66809 times)
luvrbus
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« Reply #150 on: March 01, 2011, 09:30:07 AM »

Long time ago Kenny lol now it is all about Williams I have friends at other branches so I am out of here but I do agree with the treatment Marc received in Montgomery is not the way Williams does business the Montgomery branch should have fix the damn thing right if they did not have the right mechanics they should have set him on to Atlanta and not taken his money that's all I have to say on the subject at hand

good luck
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 10:30:04 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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thejumpsuitman
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« Reply #151 on: March 01, 2011, 09:40:42 AM »


If I had a bitch, it's that the first shop didn't diagnose the bad valve while it had the injector out.


Yes, this is what it all comes down to.  This is the hinge-pin of my beef.  I was prepared for, and after talking with Clifford, expecting to pay a repair bill that was going to approach $3,000, maybe a little more.  Instead, what happened happened.  And here 2+weeks later I have had living expenses without income that have eaten away at that buffer.

I'll admit that we were tight after buying the bus, but we could have still absorbed this repair had they fixed it right the first time and quickly.  Think about what would happen to your savings account if you were forced to take a 10 day unpaid vacation without planning or preparing to.
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« Reply #152 on: March 01, 2011, 09:57:18 AM »

For some of us here, Montgomery would have been where we handed the bus title to the repair shop and drove home in the toad.
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« Reply #153 on: March 01, 2011, 10:41:08 AM »

Clifford,

"My Friend at Southern Oregon Diesel" is more of an acquaintance and he could be expected to tell you that we have only talked three or four times.  I am well impressed with him and besides his sterling professional rep in most circles I would trust him with my engine and check book simply on impressions.   But that's me.

If David was treated like Marc has been treated by a vendor or even a customer I think he would have shed himself of the problem and engaged the SOB but I certainly am not speaking for him.  I think in the past he has been so upset and disappointed by bus owners, both in the shop and on the phone, that he has given up on buses unless the owner is a good friend.  That is truly sad to me.  I am sure he isn't missing any money when you play it off against the grief.  David's time is worth a lot to him and I am pretty sure he wouldn't waste any more of it on a matter like this if he were the bus owner.  I rather think he would write it off and leave unless he engaged an SOB.  But the SOB allows you to get away from the mess, relax, and rest assured that all that can be done is being done on your behalf.  But often the guy with the big bucks can "afford" to turn and walk away.  I don't think Marc is on that list and I would not equate him and his options to David.

I know some must think I am pro lawyer.  I certainly am not.  Emphatically not.  A lawyer is the second worst type to have in your life right after a cop.  But when you need one you have no choice except to eat the bullet and turn and walk away from your money, bus, home or whatever is at stake or risk and fight.   I left out pride and face and a lot of other stuff that motivates some of us, me included.  Also, in my case at least, I want on the record that I reject this uncaring and unscrupulous deceitful conduct and I will go the extra mile to make certain I have done all in my power to make sure you don't hurt anyone else.  I  number many good men my friend and I treat them as well as I can and I am their proponent.  I won't cheapen those and many other lesser relationships by treating a crook in any same manner to any degree.  Pro lawyer?....Naw...pro justice for sure and certainly for the little guy and the underdog.

The tragedy began when it was agreed to let the second W have the coach to work on.  I thought that stop was to get a diagnosis of fuel in the oil and an estimate.  How that could get to two grand is beyond me.  There was every reason to doubt their sincerity given that they were investigating their shops work from a different city.  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice.....you understand I am sure.  Had they given me a report that stated "We are at fault for the fuel leak.  We didn't do what we were paid to do and will refund all monies paid for that service.  We will determine what damage the engine might have sustained due to our negligence and effect repairs or overhauls as required or prudent in your behalf.  We will reimburse you any expense that you might have incurred due to our negligence.  We will accomplish any part or all of this work or agree to pay any other authorized dealer to perform the work all or in part at industry standard rates and expenses.  We agree to compensate your legal representative for all standard charges for his representation in the resolution of this matter.  We require that you also hold us blameless for further legal actions pr liabilities.  Then I would sign on the recommendation of my SOB and have the bus towed to another shop that had passed my loyalty test.  Even the best intentioned manager must realize that any of his staff might take it upon themselves to punish a customer they deemed taking advantage.  Now that is a fair resolution from a company this large and scattered.  Were it me and I was a small bus. and only had a single employee I would take out a loan to pay off this deal and learn a dismal lesson on Q&A.  Were I an owner of a small bus. and a creep came in and tried to game the system on me I would be equally generous with my vitriol and vengeance.

Attorneys will all tell you that they are blindsided by their clients not telling the full story or flat misrepresenting/lying.  This makes contingency cases even more risky for them.  The system is adversarial by design and their opponent is always in the sabotage mode.  You drink scotch with these guys a few times a week for a few years and your understanding of their life broadens.  Even they are disappointed by others in their profession and they resent being cast in the same light as your common legal charlatan and they see no way of digging out from under no matter what they do..  They are like any other profession in that some are good and some are bad but the legal beagles seem to be tarred with the worst brush in the box through no fault of the individual.  I am sympathetic to their position and they, curiously enuf, are sympathetic to the victims of legal malpractice.  We all seem to hate the right guys as close as I could tell.  You want a fun and entertaining group I heartily recommend a covey of PI Tort attorneys with three shots of Scotch in each of their bellies.  Hate the sin....not the sinner.  Right?

Now, having sat across the table from Corp attorneys for many years I will share that I have only met a couple I had the least respect for.  At least the ones in the defense contractor arena.    They tried everything in the book....waited till I went to the head to pay my bar tab and scurry out the door.  The bartenders in those instances made a hellacious tip as I insisted to paying my tab with a credit card and I keep register receipts and card copies.   How about getting a "gift" of four box seats to see the Socks play this weekend and "any other sports event you might be interested in cause we get lots of these to pass out as PR".  No thanks.  They said I couldn't be reasoned with and refused to "play ball" so they were hell bent on corrupting me and then exposing me.  Why not just do the work?  And the professionals that lawyers consider the most corrupt?  Bankers!  Think on that.

Oh well.  I guess Marc is in as good of shape as he is.  I wish him and all well.  And by the way, I think advocating "negotiating" after the bill is established with a work order is ....well....not in mixed company will i use those words.

John

It took me a couple days to finish this and it might be disjointed or poorly stated.  I still have vision issues that interrupt everything.....not just this.  Sorry.
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« Reply #154 on: March 01, 2011, 10:51:40 AM »

  I guess some of us see things different.

  He paid for diagnosis and repair once. When he came back, instead of standing behind their work, they tell him the engine aint worth fixing. That should have been said up front, not after they charged him to fix it in the first place.

  Now they are blowing more of his money, re-diagnosing the same problem they charged him to diagnose two weeks ago, talking him into fixing an engine a few days ago they said was junk and not monetarily worth putting money into. How anyone can justify any of this is beyond belief.

 

 

 
  

  
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 11:17:14 AM by artvonne » Logged
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« Reply #155 on: March 01, 2011, 11:25:02 AM »


  And by the way, I think advocating "negotiating" after the bill is established with a work order is ....well....not in mixed company will i use those words.


 Hi John

I made that suggestion based on many years of Service management ( warranty administration)

Negotiating after it is fixed. Has some merit  Maximum repair $$  has been established prior to the repair.

Both parties are somewhat relieved as the problem is fixed. Clarity on what was a "overcharge" and what was a " mis treatment "is also very clear.

COSTS are known. ie mechanics time etc...

Both sides usually negotiate amicably and come away satisfied.

Just my experiences  Smiley
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 11:33:47 AM by Paso One » Logged

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« Reply #156 on: March 01, 2011, 11:32:48 AM »

I just had a good talk with the SE manager of W.W. Williams a while ago.  Although they are not willing to give me everything I asked for, I do believe they are ready to put their best effort into getting this repair done right.

We do not agree on how I should be compensated and on who should be responsible for what, but I am willing to put that behind me and move on.

I asked him for solid estimates on repairs and made clear that we needed a way out if things started to get out of hand and it looked like we would be throwing good money after bad.  He seemed to understand where I was coming from and promised to help us out where they could on labor and parts.

As I said before, I am trying to be as pragmatic and dispassionate as I can be about the whole situation. The damage is done.  My goal now is to get the bus back running right as easily as possible while spending the least amount of money as possible.  And it seems like sticking with Williams is the best option at this time.

Marc
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« Reply #157 on: March 01, 2011, 12:55:39 PM »

Marc,

You are braver than I for one thing.  You have what you want and I am certainly clapping for you.  I hate to see you "compromise" and eat a grand or two on the deal that went south through no fault of your own and that was what I wanted you to avoid.   God knows your solution is going to resolve the thing more quickly than mine.  If you are satisfied then good for you and God speed.

John

Clifford,

I had a hunch.  You seem to know a few people everywhere.  I am surprised that you got in as deep as you did and I think that is to your credit.  Can you check your PM file for a msg from me that is on another topic, please.

BK,

You indicated you might be revisiting your patronage of W and that is your bus. alone.  Personally, if I were you and I got exemplary service from them I would continue to do bus.  You being in bus. can't afford to not get the most bang for your buck.  Those shops usually have a special contempt for "RVr types" and from the stories that I hear from the likes of David those RVr types have earned that dislike.  I won't do bus. with that crew for my own sake as a non commercial customer but you are a different story.

Paso,

I am in no way discounting your experience  as a manager.  I have little doubt that W will be satisfied with the final billing and such associated with this arrangement.  I read your post as "you agree to have unspecified work done and when we get it all finished then we will dicker".  If I were dealing with David I would likely go for that deal.  Maybe you also after we became aquainted.  Trusting and being trust worthy can be a great simplification to doing bus.  I deal with quite a few shops in Eugene where I drop of the equip or vehicle and go back for the bill when I get called about it being done. Easy!

Good luck to all,

John
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« Reply #158 on: March 01, 2011, 06:46:26 PM »

Still pretty hard to make assumptions until the fat lady sings.
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« Reply #159 on: March 01, 2011, 06:52:46 PM »

To my pleasant surprise, my squeaking seemed to help.  The Regional Manager called the Service writer today and had him re-calculate the labor cost in my favor.  Had to walk away for a day, but things seem to be looking up.
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« Reply #160 on: March 01, 2011, 07:26:34 PM »

To my pleasant surprise, my squeaking seemed to help.  The Regional Manager called the Service writer today and had him re-calculate the labor cost in my favor.  Had to walk away for a day, but things seem to be looking up.

Wink
As I said early on, persistent stern insistence can go a long way toward letting them know your there, still gonna be there, and lastly "it ain't over yet!" Attitudes can go along way toward getting results. Once I get no where here is when I make it known I'm gonna be around until the fat lady sings!
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« Reply #161 on: March 01, 2011, 07:35:49 PM »

  I'm glad its working out and W is stepping up to the plate. Heres to happy conclusion.

  
  
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« Reply #162 on: March 02, 2011, 12:09:09 AM »

Most certainly good news.  Hope all continues to go well.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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« Reply #163 on: March 02, 2011, 02:51:01 AM »

Most certainly good news.  Hope all continues to go well.

John

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« Reply #164 on: March 03, 2011, 06:17:17 AM »

Glad to hear things are turning for the better. It is good to know that Williams is doing what is right and standing by their work and reputation even for a independent bus owner and not some big fleet company. Marc you did the right thing by giving Williams the chance to make things right and by keeping your cool things will all come together. And for Williams thanks for taking care of another fellow Busnut!!!
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