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Author Topic: Smoking. Cracked ring...??? What to do  (Read 64204 times)
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« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2011, 12:59:27 PM »

  Inquiring minds like to know.. How many would just fix what needs fixing (Like a single bad liner, a broken ring, burned valve) and keep on a bussin down the road? While its nice to have a new overhaul, not everyone can afford that kind of surgery, especially out on the road far away from home. In this case I am sure Jumpsuit would rather fix it at his leisure?

  In aircraft it is very common to replace a bad jug or piston or fix a valve on one jug and keep flying.
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« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2011, 01:17:39 PM »

Thanks Uncle Ned,

I just spoke with Gene.  He said it was probably a valve or a ring and to go ahead and drive it.  So that is my plan.  Drive it straight to him.

  While I still dont have experience with these Detroits, they are just engines. I think your doing the right thing. You really need another set of eyes on it by the sounds of it. Just drive easy and keep an eye on everything. If ive learned anything in my 52 years its that engines almost always warn you about what they are doing or about to do. You can stop at every exit and go back and give her a listen and a looksee.

  I had an old Alfa Romeo that had been huffing at idle and fouling number 3 plug with oil. But it didnt stop me from driving it and I really didnt baby it. One night I was wound up 5500 in 5th climbing the grade east out 94 past the MPLS airport when she coughed and lost power. I looked up and saw nothing but heavy smoke. I pulled off and drove to a station, watching gauges like a hawk, boy was she missing bad. Oil pressure and temps stayed normal. Took 3 quarts to top it off (Alfas hold 10 quarts), and I fired it back up and nursed it home. On tear down found it had blown all the rings out the exhaust. I could have probably driven it to Cali and back like that without ever really hurting anything.
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« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2011, 01:28:46 PM »

Barn Owl;; Thats the poor boys way thanks for the vote
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« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2011, 01:34:18 PM »

My uncle used to run 318's and still swears by them! Told me once that he had one drop a liner in the oil pan. He and the guy who did most of his work for him stripped parts out of an old engine, drove to where the bus sat and "rebuilt" that on cylinder in a hotel parking lot over night and put the group back on it and sent it on it's way in AM!
Has told me numerous times of just fixing what was broke and sending them down the road!

I never have been that lucky! (but I've never had a 318 either!)
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« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2011, 01:42:30 PM »

Quote
How many would just fix what needs fixing (Like a single bad liner, a broken ring, burned valve) and keep on a bussin down the road?

I would fix what was broken and that would be it. There is no payback for doing a complete rebuild if everything else is within spec. There are some though that just can't sleep at night unless everything is new.

Quote
In aircraft it is very common to replace a bad jug or piston or fix a valve on one jug and keep flying.

That is very true, and if it works for planes, then why not buses?

If I was going to completely rebuild a 8v71 I would take my money and re-power with a 6V92ta. Plentiful and inexpensive.
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« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2011, 04:20:35 PM »

Fix what needs fixing. I ran several 318s in trucks when I was in that business. I put one hole in an engine if that was all it needed. They are tougher than you think.


I got a bunch of stories but they are too long to recount here. Me and another crazy guy turned an 8-71 into a a 7-71 on a fuel barge one time. It lost a rod through the block & the boss said make it run so we can pump off. About 4 hours, a torch, and some Marine-Tex & it was running. It sure did sound funny though!   Grin Grin


TOM
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« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2011, 06:11:42 PM »

the question i would ask is what is the cost difference between fixing one cylinder and doing a rebuild? If the ring comes apart, it could  do damage beyond that one ring.
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« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2011, 06:21:43 PM »

Point of diminishing returns on 8V71 that comes with a rebuild that would last 400,000 miles and a used engine that could be purchased for 2 or 3 grand.  A member just had a 6V92 built in Missouri for 6800 including head : Wax um from Oklahoma. If your total travels would be  around 20,000 miles a year  it would take twenty years to put on 400,000.  Good luck  Bob
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 06:24:41 PM by robertglines1 » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2011, 06:28:11 PM »

Point of diminishing returns on 8V71 that comes with a rebuild that would last 400,000 miles and a used engine that could be purchased for 2 or 3 grand.  A member just had a 6V92 built in Missouri for 6800 including head : Wax um from Oklahoma. If your total travels would be  around 20,000 miles it would take twenty years to put on 400,000.  Good luck  Bob

This is exactly my kind of thinking.  I was given the standard line from the shop as if I were a fleet manager, not an individual.  I'm sure if I was Greyhound, a rebuild or replacement would be the way to go for the mileage that would be put on the bus.  But I am looking at around 8-10k mi per year.  If I could squeeze even just another 100k out of the engine, that would be about 10 years worth for me.
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« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2011, 06:35:15 PM »

Fix what needs fixing. I ran several 318s in trucks when I was in that business. I put one hole in an engine if that was all it needed. They are tougher than you think.

I got a bunch of stories but they are too long to recount here. Me and another crazy guy turned an 8-71 into a a 7-71 on a fuel barge one time. It lost a rod through the block & the boss said make it run so we can pump off. About 4 hours, a torch, and some Marine-Tex & it was running. It sure did sound funny though!   Grin Grin
TOM

That MARINE-TEX is some bad stuff ain't it? Wink
Used to use it to repair Derby car blocks between races!
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« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2011, 06:55:01 PM »

That MARINE-TEX is some bad stuff ain't it? Wink
Used to use it to repair Derby car blocks between races!
Grin  BK  Grin

It is!  I had never used it until that day. Leeland (my buddy) is crazier than I am, if that is even possible. I had just accompanied him on a lark to his job, which was to pump off a barge on that particular night. We had  just got the 318 up & pumping when it threw a rod through the block. We dropped the pan, removed what was left of the rod. welded the piston in to cover the scavenger holes, patched up the hole in the block with Marine-Tex & he did something with the injector. Fired it up & pumped out the barge.

The funny thing is, Leeland said he saw that barge again about a year later & IT WAS STILL RUNNING!!!

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

Of course the boss was a real cheapskate.

TOM
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« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2011, 07:18:59 PM »

  There is a guy in Tyler Texas with a 8V71 and HT740 out of an MC8 he will load for you for $1000. Has a video of it running.
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« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2011, 05:09:17 AM »

Near as I can tell from both threads, all you have is an educated guess that it is a cracked ring, no definitive diagnosis.

You will be fine when you get it closer to home and in the hands of a compensate but lower priced shop, one that understands your position.
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« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2011, 06:34:22 AM »

I really have no answers on why you are treated in that way at Williams I deal with 2 branches the one in Phoenix and Vegas and they don't work that way I can assure you on that part it would have been so easy to check the compression with injector removed.
Just replace the one liner set if needed and the head you will be fine for years my money is on a chip out of 1 of the valves I have never been lucky enough just to replace a injector,  somewhere there are photos of what a blown injector will do to the head of a engine and the top of the piston that I posted from a 8v92 in Smiths Eagle a few years back 
My voice would be heard in OHIO and if I paid with plastic notify the card co

good luck
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« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2011, 06:44:20 AM »

Could you diagnose a bad valve by putting the cylinder in compression and doing a leak-down test putting air pressure into the exhaust port?  You could make up a sealing plate to cover the exhaust port with a place to attach an air hose with a leak=down tester.  If you had the airbox cover for that cylinder off, you could listen for leakage in the air box.  Just a random thought.

I'm on the side of those who think you could pull the head on that side, check the valves, pull the piston and look for bad rings and not be all that invested except in time.  Fix what turns out to be broken White smoke says no compression, and I would think that a leak-down test into the injector hole could tell you if the problem was bad rings or a valve just by listening to where the leak is.  Do you even do that on diesel engines?  I do it all the time on my gas race engines. 

Brian
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