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Author Topic: Smoking. Cracked ring...??? What to do  (Read 64135 times)
RnMAdventures
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« Reply #75 on: February 27, 2011, 05:40:01 PM »

I sent a LONG, LONG email to W.W. Williams this evening recounting my entire experience and asking for their help.  We will see what happens.

You have a lot of patience. I think writing corporate was a good move and after all the mistakes that were made it seems you have kept your wits about you. They didn’t even hook up the exhaust? Luckily that didn’t start a fire. Shocked These guys being a shop that supports the transportation industry is scary. Hopefully corporate will get involved and do some house cleaning at that location. In addition to writing your email, call corporate and be heard. They have wasted enough of your time and money.

How corporate handles your case will tell the rest of us if their reputation still holds true.  Roll Eyes

Hang in there and keep us posted.
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Mike & Rosemarie
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« Reply #76 on: February 27, 2011, 07:05:54 PM »

Is Sam Walker running that garage?  You have been hosed sooooo badly by that crew.  Go for their groin.  No mercy!  Do what you can for the universe and don't spare any effort in making sure these clowns are not waiting anywhere for any of us.  If Corporate gaffs you, and I am sure they will not do that, then you are going to have to bite the bullet and get an attorney.  Get one of those low down rotten unscrupulous SOBs but you can tell people that he is "your SOB" and we will cheer you on.  Hope it works out cause Corp America is sponsoring a big campaign to get rid of those attorneys to save us from them.   And you know how corp Amerika is always looking out for our best interests.

John
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The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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thejumpsuitman
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« Reply #77 on: February 27, 2011, 09:57:13 PM »

I certainly hope it doesn't come to that. All of our negative experiences have been with the Montgomery branch.  It's hard to believe they won't be reasonable after all they put us through.  I feel a lot better now that it is at a different W.W.Williams location.
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« Reply #78 on: February 28, 2011, 03:16:37 AM »

I sent a LONG, LONG email to W.W. Williams this evening recounting my entire experience and asking for their help.  We will see what happens.

Marc


You may want to consider following this with a phone call to make sure that someone actually read the email.  If your current experience is good, let corporate know about that too.  That way they know what shops are doing a good job and what shops are slackers.
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Dennis Watson
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chart1
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« Reply #79 on: February 28, 2011, 06:24:11 AM »

Well today is the big day the bus goes in to the shop. They can say whatever they want about the fuel problem but letting that bus out of the shop without hooking the exhaust back up is just unheard of. I think a shop should tell you upfront and be honest if they dont have anyone that is qualified to work on a bus or just don't want to work on it. I am hoping that Williams Corp. office will take care of this matter and also take action to insure it doesnt happen againto another future busnut in trouble in Mongomery Alabama.   
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thejumpsuitman
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« Reply #80 on: February 28, 2011, 07:00:37 AM »

Well today is the big day the bus goes in to the shop. They can say whatever they want about the fuel problem but letting that bus out of the shop without hooking the exhaust back up is just unheard of. I think a shop should tell you upfront and be honest if they dont have anyone that is qualified to work on a bus or just don't want to work on it. I am hoping that Williams Corp. office will take care of this matter and also take action to insure it doesnt happen againto another future busnut in trouble in Mongomery Alabama.   

Yes!  I wish they had just told me they weren't interested in working on it!  That would have saved me almost 2 weeks of waiting around Montgomery and losing money... above and beyond what they charged for their "service". 

There is no excuse for their attitude or for the lack of care and attention they put into their efforts.  When they took the bus in, they were in effect, committing themselves to diagnosing the problem and to offering me reasonable options for repair.

I got a message this morning from Williams in Atlanta.  They said they were pulling the bus in and were preparing to remove the exhaust manifold to get to the root of the problem...  This is what Montgomery should have done in the first place!!!
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John316
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« Reply #81 on: February 28, 2011, 07:06:04 AM »

That is good news, Marc. I am glad that Atlanta is finally looking into what really happened.

I would also consider sending your letter certified mail, with a signature return. That letter WILL get read then.

I pray that things work out well for you. Sure is a nice bus.

God bless,

John
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thejumpsuitman
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« Reply #82 on: February 28, 2011, 08:18:03 AM »

I just got off the phone with Aven Sharp who is the Southeast president of W.W. Williams.  His office is in Atlanta.  He said he had just read my email recounting our experiences with the Montgomery branch.  He said he is aware that the bus is there and would personally get involved.  He assured me that we would hear from them again before the end of the day with information regarding it's condition.

I expressed to him that I was very concerned that any damage found could be related to the improper diagnoses and repairs that the shop in Montgomery did.  He took a "wait and see" stance, which I can accept for now.

I hope and pray that this company displays the kind of character that we are told they have.

Marc
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« Reply #83 on: February 28, 2011, 09:12:59 AM »

They can say whatever they want about the fuel problem but letting that bus out of the shop without hooking the exhaust back up is just unheard of. I think a shop should tell you upfront and be honest if they dont have anyone that is qualified to work on a bus or just don't want to work on it.   

  They? It was one guy, the mechanic. He dont own the shop and neither does the guy who runs the shop.

  I was poking around inside the wing of a Cessna 172 during an annual inspection, looking with a mirror and flashlight, when something caught my eye. I reached my hand up inside and brought out a pair of pliers. The pliers had a name ground into them. I walked over to Bob and showed them to him. He read the name "Oh, Billy  _____'s". The guy he refered to hadnt been around a while, the pliers could have been up there for years through countless other 100 hour and annual inspections. Bob handed them back to me and said "thats why you dont put your name on your tools", laughed, and walked away. I was horrified. Those pliers could have been caught in a control cable for the aileron, or jammed the flaps. How can you laugh? Over time I saw the humor. Hopefully you can too if you think about it. But that incident had nothing to do with the shop owner, it was all on the mechanic who left them behind.

  The point here is that we all make mistakes. How many times have we read of a doctor leaving a tool inside someones chest? I was amazed by a lot of things I saw working around airplanes. But to be fair, there isnt any law stopping an owner from inspecting his own airplane, over and above the mechanic. Once in a while an owner would follow behind a mechanic and look inside everything themselves. But it was VERY rare. Never assume that the clown working on your rig knows more than you do.

  There is always something comforting in having a new set of eyes put on something. Mechanics love finding mistakes the last guy missed or goofed up, kind of a neener neener attitude. Jumpsuit drove in with a problem, and asked them to fix it. They returned it in no better condition, running rough, therfore it was NOT fixed. He returned, explaining the problem persisted, they fiddled and came up with guesses, and sent him down the road leaking fuel, a problem he did NOT have when he came in. I will be very surprised if there is any further billing on this, even to the point of a complete overhaul if the engine is damaged.  
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thejumpsuitman
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« Reply #84 on: February 28, 2011, 10:33:47 AM »

I just heard from Williams again.  The shop foreman is saying there was no fuel in the oil... He also said that he has determined that it has a valve problem, either burnt or broken.  He scoped the cylinder but said he it had some wear but could not tell to what degree.  The next step would be to pull the head.

Okay, I am getting nervous...  He followed all that up by saying my current bill was $2,100, which includes a tow of $975.  And it would be another $800 to pull the head off for further diagnostics.  My response was to ask what kind help they were willing to give based on our 10-day nightmare experience in Montgomery.  He said it was not up to him to make those calls and would have his boss call me. 

He apologized for my bad experience so far and said all he could do is do things correctly from here on.  I said I understand that, but if I have a full size bill after having had that experience, the taste in my mouth would still be very bitter!

Boy, I am starting to feel sick.

I am at a loss as to him saying there was no fuel in the oil.  Somehow it went from 2 quarts down to 2 quarts over without me adding anything...  And YES, I know how to check oil.  I checked it 3 different times and parked on different surfaces to make sure I was getting a correct reading.  I did notice that when they pulled in in on the hook that there was a trail of oil under the bus.  Maybe it leaked out what was over, but I know of nothing but water or fuel that could get into a crankcase without adding it yourself.

I will try not get too anxious and simply wait to hear from the foreman's boss on how they plan to help us on this bill.

Marc
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chart1
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« Reply #85 on: February 28, 2011, 11:01:14 AM »

If it is not fuel in the oil then what was it that raised the oil level. huh?? Maybe your engine makes oil. What about not hooking up the exhaust? It sounds that they are back tracking now. I think maybe we should all make a phone call.
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thejumpsuitman
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« Reply #86 on: February 28, 2011, 11:09:41 AM »

I am going to remain cool until I hear what they are or are not willing to do...  But I DO wish I had got an oil sample before leaving.  Might call on someone to run by to get one for me.  But still want to stay cool and let them do right.
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« Reply #87 on: February 28, 2011, 12:52:19 PM »

  So they are going to lie about the fuel in the oil, stick you with the tow, and tell you the engine damage isnt anything they are responsible for?

  Okay let me see if I get this straight. They cant tell if the engine has any compression or a bad valve without pulling off the head? Are they serious? STOP. This is BS. If they cant run a simple compression test or run a leak down after all the garbage they have put you through, tell them to shove it outside and go drive it to someone who knows what the heck their doing.

   A compression test at a minimum, and really, it needed a leak down test, should have been the very first thing they did. PERIOD! A leakdown would tell the % of loss and the area, valve or rings.

   I would seriously call them and tell them to stop doing anymore work, leave it alone, your coming to get it and drive it out of there. Im really sorry to see you getting a run around on this.
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #88 on: February 28, 2011, 01:52:37 PM »

Marc,
I too am sorry to hear/see that your still having problems on this.
But when you said it had pumped a gallon of fuel in it in an hour, I thought YOU KNEW FOR SURE that there was FUEL in the oil! Had I known that it had just gained oil mysteriously, I probable would have told you to go buy a couple drain pans, oil, & filters and change it your self to be sure what ya had & how much, instead of insisting that you have Williams have it towed!

Now I'm not blaming you, or whatever, just saying I misunderstood the EXACT situation. 

BUT again, I'm at a loss as to why they are not able to tell you more about the problem after already charging $1125 just to tell you "there is no fuel in the oil, and it has a valve problem!"
What have they done for $1125? An oil analysis and scoping the cylinders should not cost that much!
What is their shop rate? @ $1125 you'd think they would have spent about 9-10 hrs on it already! And if they spent that much time on it they damn well should be able to tell you what is wrong with it!

$800 just to pull the head? After $1125 already? Ah, I'd be on the phone with the guy that called you and let him know MANY of us experienced as well as inexperienced busnuts are following this ordeal and not liking what we're seeing/hearing at all! I for one have always thought they were a better company than it is starting to appear to be!

They sent a service truck out to us in a McDonald's parking lot once south of Atlanta as we were loaded and on our way to Orlando when one of the buses just stopped building air.
He put a governor on it and sent us on our way. Once in Orlando it acted up again. Only this time it was building too much air!
So I took it to Orlando Detroit Diesel and they found it was a bad governor that had been put on it.
SO we paid them and left. When I got to the hotel I told them about it, and what ODD had told us. He insisted I fax him the bill from ODD and to my surprise when I got home I had a check waiting on me from them that not only covered ODD's bill but also a full refund of their service call, parts, & labor bill too!
SO I have used them again since and had a couple minor issues and they immediately corrected those too!

FWIW I am sorry! And I would NOT go for what they are telling you now! If they are going to charge you $2000 just to be able to tell you what Clifford already had told you from the start and Montgomery should have also done/told you. Then tell them thanks but no thanks just make it drivable and I'll take it to a shop that WILL DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME & take it to Gene or David!

And yes I'm sorry to say it, but you will have to pay the $2100 before they will release it to you! But pay it and tell them they just lost a LOT OF PEOPLES business! (especially at these 2 locations!)

Then take it to Gene or David and have them fix it right and chalk up the rest to a bad learning experience!
 Angry  BK  Sad 
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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RJ
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« Reply #89 on: February 28, 2011, 02:02:27 PM »

Marc -

Do you know the simple test to determine if there's diesel in the engine oil?

All it takes is a couple of paper towels folded together.

Set them on the floor.  Pull the dipstick and let it drip oil onto the towels.

If almost immediately the oil starts spreading throughout the towel, there's fuel in the oil.

If it slowly dissipates, then it's only oil.

As a follow-up and back-up, smell the paper towel.  If there's diesel on the towel, it will be VERY noticeable.

So, a trip over to Williams shop for a look/see?

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
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