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Author Topic: Our GM 4103  (Read 5206 times)
2xclutchin
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« on: February 27, 2011, 03:26:16 PM »

Hello,
       This is actually my first post on the forum and i was actually wondering if anybody could put me in touch with a GM guru. I'm a younger person but i want to learn as much as possible about our GM 4103. Also we will be converting it so ill probably ask a few questions about that too. "The Bus" began as a project of my Grandfathers back in 97' once he passed on it was sold and now we've bought her back! I was told its a 1953. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1381351354422&set=a.1381323073715.45533.1851114402&theater If that link worked that is a picture, shes rough but still a beautiful sight. PD4103-1353 is her number and i was also hoping to find out some of the history behind "The Bus".
I also wanted to say good job to the people that have put this together I've learned alot already and this is just a great thing to have.
Thanks,
          Mike
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Mike
Nothing beats a 2-Stroke
1952 MoPac GM PD-4103-1353 6-71 DD 4 speed
Work in progress
Thief River Falls, MN
Rick59-4104
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« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2011, 03:39:05 PM »

 Hello Mike,
 Welcome, John or someone here will probably be able to give tell you the company that took delivery of your bus when new. By the number I would say it is a 1953 it is my understanding that the 03's were made in a run of 1500 buses from '51 to'53. I just bought and moved a 4103 yesterday, see my earlier post on this bus, I have some pictures of the 4103 and my 1959 4104 on the Yahoo GM Bus Site/forum under Photos, Ricks59-4104

 Your bus looks good to me, lots of information here the search feature here and on the other forums will be your friend.

 Rick









Where are you located?
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NW Arkansas
1959 GM 4104  No. 4115
1972 Grumman Kurbmaster Stepvan Conversion
1957 Airstream 13 panel Overlander
2xclutchin
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« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2011, 04:03:34 PM »

Thief River Falls, Minnesota about 70 miles from Canada. I wish it was warm up here, be nice to take it out for a drive, but without heat i'd have to say no way lol.
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Mike
Nothing beats a 2-Stroke
1952 MoPac GM PD-4103-1353 6-71 DD 4 speed
Work in progress
Thief River Falls, MN
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« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2011, 04:16:30 PM »

Mike -

Welcome aboard.  Not to many 4103s still running, let alone running around, so kudos to you for keeping it alive.

Be aware that windshields are now made from "unobtainium". . .

FYI, PD4103-1353 was delivered new in June of 1952 as fleet number 920 to Missouri Pacific Transportation Company, based out of St. Louis, MO.  It was the second of a 10-bus order delivered by GM to MoPac that month.  Most likely stayed in their fleet about 10 years, maybe less.

Back in those days, quite a few railroads also owned bus companies, using the buses to feed the trains - just like Amtrak does today.  Based on this historical time-frame, I'm not sure how long MoPac kept their bus operations - perhaps inquiring on a railroad fan site might divulge that info for you.

So your coach never was a Greyhound, even though non-bus folk will call it one.

Suggestion:  Keep it as stock looking as possible - nowadays the nostalgia thing creates tons of interest!

Good Luck on your project, and again, welcome aboard!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
Fresno CA
2xclutchin
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« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2011, 04:58:55 PM »

Alright, well that was our plan, that is to keep it original. Does anybody on here know the paint scheme? I have been trying to search for it but dont find, well, anything other than pictures of 4104's bought by the company. Yes going into this we knew about the lovely hard to find windshields, but as of right now both are in good condition, knock on wood. I was also reading that bus operations for MoPac were transfered to trailways in 1957 i think. I have to say nothing even comes close to driving that 6-71 and that four speed, it was easy once i figured out the double clutching part.
Forgot to say Thank you for the information, I love learning history behind older vehicles
Thanks again,
                  Mike
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 05:12:58 PM by 2xclutchin » Logged

Mike
Nothing beats a 2-Stroke
1952 MoPac GM PD-4103-1353 6-71 DD 4 speed
Work in progress
Thief River Falls, MN
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« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2011, 08:22:03 PM »

Mo Pac same as ours was. I am away from the house computor but there is a great site Angelfire, that has hundreds of old bus pictures with several Mo Pacs, someone will probably post the site b4 i get home but if not i will wed.
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leroy
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« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2011, 04:28:50 AM »

does anyone know what happend to 1362? 
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« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2011, 05:16:50 AM »

Woww, I just looked at your your profile...  You have easily unseated Jordansinthesky as the new youngest busnut.  Congratulations.
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« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 09:16:01 AM »

Here's a photo I found of 908.  http://cw42.tripod.com/subdirectory/MoP-908_3704.jpg


This guy's website has Trailways history, http://cw42.tripod.com/Jon.html installment 4 discusses Missouri Pacific and its relationship to Trailways.  He says that after they dropped out of Trailways, the color scheme was blue and cream.  

Caution, it has music, and it's hard to find where to turn the G-- D--- music off.  

Arthur
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 09:18:30 AM by Runcutter » Logged

Arthur Gaudet    Carrollton (Dallas area) Texas 
1968 PD-4107

Working in the bus industry provides us a great opportunity - to be of service to others
2xclutchin
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« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2011, 04:33:52 PM »

Thanks much, once i told my dad about this he said there is a piece of the stainless missing and it was blue under it, so it definitely makes some sense. I just shut my speakers off before I even clicked on the link, lol. I know I'm bassically the youngest on a tractor forum i visit also, so I'm used to it haha. I also looked on the anglefire site and did learn some interesting information. So far it appears we will be painting her some day in the blue and cream, try to keep it as close to the day she was put in service.
Thanks,
          Mike
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Mike
Nothing beats a 2-Stroke
1952 MoPac GM PD-4103-1353 6-71 DD 4 speed
Work in progress
Thief River Falls, MN
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« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2011, 06:08:08 PM »

Mike, some research may get you the paint colors.  The Ohio Museum of Transportation will supply the manufacturer's build record for GM coaches, for a $25 donation.  Mike Ondecker is the guy to contact.  I don't have his contact information handy, but maybe someone else here does.  Maintenance manuals and parts books come up on Ebay fairly often, you might keep a lookout there.

What you refer to as "stainless" is, most likely, anodized aluminum.  There are a lot of other threads in the archives, dealing with the care and feeding of anodized aluminum.  It's important, because if you try to treat it as stainless, and polish it, you're likely in for trouble.  (Our 4107 bay doors need attention, but I still haven't found a reasonable solution - and that's so far down the road as a project, that they may never get done).

Arthur
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Arthur Gaudet    Carrollton (Dallas area) Texas 
1968 PD-4107

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« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2011, 09:55:01 AM »

Mike, here are a couple more sources for information.  The Missouri Pacific Historical Society would have a lot of information - including paint numbers.  Yes, this is for locomotives/rolling stock, but some research might tell you which blue, and which cream, were used on the buses.  http://www.mopac.org/pic_paint.asp.  The Society's magazine may have a back issue dealing with the bus fleet, and I think I saw an "ask the society" link somewhere on their pages. 

The Motor Bus Society http://www.motorbussociety.org/ may have something. 

Last, there are quite a few railroad books out there, and things like Color Guides to MoPac, etc. may help.

Personally, I'd start with the MoPac Historical Society, and go from there. 

Arthur
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Arthur Gaudet    Carrollton (Dallas area) Texas 
1968 PD-4107

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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2011, 07:38:30 PM »

Hey Mike,
Several busnuts down here around the cities. All kinds of experience amongst the group. We even do a couple mini rallies; last two years in a row we've been up by Bemidji; sort of in your neck of the woods.
Fred
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Fred Thomson
2xclutchin
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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2011, 08:34:44 PM »

First off thanks again for all the help and pointing me in the right directions everyone.
@fredward- Really? I didnt know that but now that i do we will most deffinetly6 try be a part of that, be good to finnally meet some busnuts.
Thanks again everybody and i will try to post some more pictures soon, also a little bit more on how we obtained it.
Until then,
             Mike
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Mike
Nothing beats a 2-Stroke
1952 MoPac GM PD-4103-1353 6-71 DD 4 speed
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Thief River Falls, MN
2xclutchin
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« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2011, 07:52:15 PM »

It's been awhile, here it goes. We had the bright idea of finally starting to do some work but as we started to take the full size couch/hide-a-bed out that the PO had in it, we found that it could not fit out the front door. Should be easy to get around, right? Emergency exit door is wider so we brought the couch back to that door and how about it, the door has no handle, how does one get the door open? I see a gear in there, was it originally allot like the bay doors which use a ratchet to open, just missing the essential part to turn it? Also how does the speedometer work? Ours doesn't move, not one bit. Sorry about the lack of pictures, I want to put more up but just haven't found the time.
Thanks,
          Mike
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Mike
Nothing beats a 2-Stroke
1952 MoPac GM PD-4103-1353 6-71 DD 4 speed
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Thief River Falls, MN
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« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2011, 04:26:12 AM »

The door has a top and bottom latch actuated by the center handle. If you can get a square piece of stock or a vise grip to grab the mechanism and turn it to the left (from the inside of course). the lever arm that goes on this is about 14 to 18" so it has some leverage. the "locks" fit into holes in the door frame. someone may have to push in on the door from the outside to help you turn easier. The rear door is so nice!
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we love our buses!!! NE Pa or LI NY, or somewhere in between!
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« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2011, 05:08:34 AM »

For parts, I found John at www.busfixx.com to be very helpful. There is a downloadable catalog.  I found parts for my 1964 PD4106 and John seemed to know what I needed as I was asking about the items.  For instance, I was looking for a fuel sender and a gauge.  he asked me right off the bat if the tank had a little plate with 5 screws in it.  He was right on the money.  Prices seemed fair as well.  Welcome to the insanity and good luck.
Ed
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Ed Spohr/1962 PD4106/8V71/4Speed/Zion,Ill/Far North East Corner of Illinois
2xclutchin
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« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2011, 02:41:33 PM »

Hello everyone,
Well on Tuesday I decided to take her out for a quick drive around the local country side. Started wonderful, smoked but it cleared up. So I take off drive down the road a few miles, then decide to turn onto a gravel road to check everything out. Opened the engine compartment and the oil pressure is sitting at 20. I then proceded to take the quickest route to the parking spot and park, before shutting it off though i went back and checked everything out now the oil pressure is at 23. What is the average? I know i read that they are supposed to have 50psi at idle. Otherwise everything went great, almost got shifting down too  Grin lol.
Thanks,
          Mike
Its the 6-71 btw.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 03:41:07 PM by 2xclutchin » Logged

Mike
Nothing beats a 2-Stroke
1952 MoPac GM PD-4103-1353 6-71 DD 4 speed
Work in progress
Thief River Falls, MN
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« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2011, 04:26:44 PM »

2xclutchin,

was the bus iddling when you saw the 20 psi ?

If so, that is good. Some DDs show even no press. at iddle. As long as you have 40 or 50 psi going down the road on the governor, you're doing good.

JC
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JC
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Rick59-4104
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« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2011, 04:34:17 PM »

 Hello Mike,
 My 4104 at low idle will have very little pressure....I think the book says somewhere about 5 lbs, at fast idle it should have more, going down the road I have 45 to 55...

 Don't know where you saw 50 at idle but I don't think so....Do you have a gauge in the cockpit?

Rick
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 04:37:11 PM by Rick59-4104 » Logged

NW Arkansas
1959 GM 4104  No. 4115
1972 Grumman Kurbmaster Stepvan Conversion
1957 Airstream 13 panel Overlander
2xclutchin
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« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2011, 04:35:27 PM »

Yes it was at idle, the oil pressure gauge in the cab actually does not work though so down the road i have no idea.
Thanks,
          Mike
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Mike
Nothing beats a 2-Stroke
1952 MoPac GM PD-4103-1353 6-71 DD 4 speed
Work in progress
Thief River Falls, MN
Rick59-4104
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« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2011, 04:39:33 PM »

 If you had 20 at idle I would think no problem, it would make me really nervous not to have a gauge you can look at going down the road...

Rick
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NW Arkansas
1959 GM 4104  No. 4115
1972 Grumman Kurbmaster Stepvan Conversion
1957 Airstream 13 panel Overlander
2xclutchin
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« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2011, 04:53:14 PM »

Yes, that will be addressed. Well it's good to know that its not bad, just goes to show how internet searches are not the most reliable lol. Oh I almost forgot, we were digging in the defroster area, and noticed a old black box, so of course we opened it and it is what appears to be the first aid kit assigned to the bus. A long time ago judging by the contents, almost complete to  Grin
Thanks,
         Mike
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Mike
Nothing beats a 2-Stroke
1952 MoPac GM PD-4103-1353 6-71 DD 4 speed
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Thief River Falls, MN
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« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2011, 08:15:30 PM »

Below is directly out of a GM 4106 operator’s manual:


Normal readings with engine hot are:

Idling – 4 pounds minimum.
Governed speed – 25 pounds minimum.

Engine must not be operated when oil pressure falls below 25 pounds at governed speed under full load. If oil pressure falls below 3 pounds, the “LOW OIL” tell-tale will light and buzzer will sound.
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« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2011, 11:25:16 PM »

19? Right On! Welcome to the group!  Grin You might be the youngest bus nut ever with a bus of his own!
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« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2011, 02:34:54 PM »

Well I actually traded my model A John deere to my dad for a share of it. lol  Grin
Thanks,
          Mike
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Mike
Nothing beats a 2-Stroke
1952 MoPac GM PD-4103-1353 6-71 DD 4 speed
Work in progress
Thief River Falls, MN
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