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Author Topic: building a bus barn  (Read 7532 times)
belfert
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« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2011, 07:42:20 PM »

I wish I could build any sort of bus garage on my lot.  I wanted to move further out so as to have more room for a bus garage, but I have a very nice house now and with gas prices I really don't want to double my commute.  (Gas prices may go down again, but we know they are going to go up long term.)

I looked into the whole accessory building thing recently.  A few years back the city went from 1500 square feet down to 750 square feet for accessory buildings on lots under an acre.  Not only is the limit 750 sq ft, but you are also limited to 80% of the foundation area of the house and your garage counts towards the 750 sq ft.  I have a 600 sq ft attached garage so I can basically build a small shed.

But, I have two lots back to back.  I thought well I can build a 750 sq ft accessory structure on the back lot.  No can do as the city says there has to be a house present or under construction before an accessory structure can be built.  I wanted to do a 14 ft wide by 50 foot long garage.  The 14 ft width is limiting, but it is all I can have within 750 sq ft.  The worse issue is a 10 foot limit on sidewall height.  Obviously I can't get a 12' 9" vehicle into a building with a 10 foot ceiling.

No, I can't get a variance.  The courts in the state of Minnesota have severely limited the ability of cities and counties to issue variances.  Cities are reluctant to give out any variances right now in fear they will get sued.

My lot is 55 feet wide and 288 feet deep.  The design of the lot is such that a bus garage on the rear of the lot won't bother the neighbors as there are no adjacent houses back there and lots of trees.  Unfortunately, unless city code changes there will never be a bus garage back there.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
chart1
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« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2011, 08:05:13 PM »

Here is one I have been looking at http://www.mohawklifts.com/wp/consumer/browse-lifts/4-post-lifts/tr33-4-post-lifts/ but I seen one at my local charter bus company that you roll 4 independant wheel lifts in and they all raise and lower together. http://www.mohawklifts.com/wp/consumer/browse-lifts/mobile-column-lifts/mp_series/





There was mention of re-sale earlier in the thread.

The large garage is actually a real estate agent's nightmare.
Slims down the potential purchasers by a lot.
And if you install a door shorter than a full height highway tractor...
You destroyed another big part of what's left of that slim market of potential purchasers.

Make your doors taller than 13' 6".

Also, you want two light switches at the door, one for the big lights, one for a single at each end just so you can see well enough to move around.


Here is one I have been looking at http://www.mohawklifts.com/wp/consumer/browse-lifts/4-post-lifts/tr33-4-post-lifts/ but I seen one at my local charter bus company that you roll 4 independant whell lifts in and they all raise and lower together. Haaven't found them online yet.

Mine came from the previous owner with these lovely monster streetlights hanging from the ceiling, with the white steel panels on the walls, it's like daylight in there, but they take longer to warm up than the time to walk to the other end and back to find what I want.

Two single fluorescent fixtures, mounted up high, one at each end, will save the big lights for when I need them.

I have been a fan of pits in the past, but I'm wavering in favor of a set of used mobile lifts. Old ones get traded in to the suppliers all the time. With a pit, the code issues, the insurance issues, the practical ventilation and drainage requirements, the danger of stepping of the edge and falling into the #$#$^ thing, which happens periodically at work, I'll tell you, it can be a game ender for your mobility, the safety of children around the pit, the loss of clear floor space for other uses...

And, you can use the lifts for your smaller vehicles too!

The pit is simple, once installed, and the coach is parked right there ready to walk under at your leisure, but?

As I say, I'm wavering.

happy coaching!
buswarrior


« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 08:09:08 PM by chart1 » Logged

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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2011, 08:35:17 PM »

2 problems with lifts. 1) you have to have taller ceilings to have room to raise a bus. 2) if they fail (and they do sometimes) then yer bus is gonna fall! (let's pray nobody is under it when it does!)
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2011, 09:45:46 PM »

When I go to my brother's house in Idaho he has a drainage ditch in front. I park there. It is really cool too because it is just sloped on the sides and about 3 or 3 1/2 feet deep at the deepest part. I can get under the bus very easily and see everything and the ground is packed really hard around it. Seems like a real safe sit down type pit. One of the posters here, I forget who now, said they made a sit down pit in their barn. Something like this would seem to me to be a lot safer then a full standing pit.
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boxcarOkie
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« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2011, 04:46:26 AM »

Hey Buswarrior, when we built our shop, we built it for "US" with absolutely no consideration for what it would be worth later on.  It really doesn't matter to me what a real estate agent will get for it, I am going to be long gone at that time.  

The singing, the crying, the hand wringing will be over with.

Building a shop, no matter what size or construction, is going to be an investment.  It is good to have all your ducks in a row, before entering into it.  I agree with almost everything that you say, don't get me wrong, I just feel it (future value) is not all that important in the scheme of things.  

As for a pit?  I wanted a pit but the insurance problems associated with it, kind of canceled it out.  I bought some 30ton jacks and have an air compressor and for now, that will have to work.

It is good to have a shop and be able to slink away and do the things a guy likes to do.  I love that aspect of it. 

The absolute shame of it all is the control local authorities and municipalities have over you when you go to build it ON YOUR LAND that part of it really sucks.  You pay the taxes, you maintain it, you take care of it .... but you have little say so when it comes to improving it or bringing it around to your standard of living. 

I am not crazy about that.  Have a good week, stay warm.

BCO
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 04:51:17 AM by boxcarOkie » Logged

Len Silva
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« Reply #50 on: March 07, 2011, 04:57:09 AM »

I wish I could build any sort of bus garage on my lot.  I wanted to move further out so as to have more room for a bus garage, but I have a very nice house now and with gas prices I really don't want to double my commute.  (Gas prices may go down again, but we know they are going to go up long term.)

I looked into the whole accessory building thing recently.  A few years back the city went from 1500 square feet down to 750 square feet for accessory buildings on lots under an acre.  Not only is the limit 750 sq ft, but you are also limited to 80% of the foundation area of the house and your garage counts towards the 750 sq ft.  I have a 600 sq ft attached garage so I can basically build a small shed.

But, I have two lots back to back.  I thought well I can build a 750 sq ft accessory structure on the back lot.  No can do as the city says there has to be a house present or under construction before an accessory structure can be built.  I wanted to do a 14 ft wide by 50 foot long garage.  The 14 ft width is limiting, but it is all I can have within 750 sq ft.  The worse issue is a 10 foot limit on sidewall height.  Obviously I can't get a 12' 9" vehicle into a building with a 10 foot ceiling.

No, I can't get a variance.  The courts in the state of Minnesota have severely limited the ability of cities and counties to issue variances.  Cities are reluctant to give out any variances right now in fear they will get sued.

My lot is 55 feet wide and 288 feet deep.  The design of the lot is such that a bus garage on the rear of the lot won't bother the neighbors as there are no adjacent houses back there and lots of trees.  Unfortunately, unless city code changes there will never be a bus garage back there.

Why don't you just build a house on the other lot?  One with a very big front door and open floor plan Wink
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« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2011, 07:05:47 AM »

Quote from: Len
Why don't you just build a house on the other lot?  One with a very big front door and open floor plan Wink

That is exactly what I was going to suggest a very tall house that from the outside looks like a two story house.
And on the inside looks like a very OPEN floor plan with no upper floor! (Or really fool the bastards and put a ledge/walkway/storage way around the 3 sides that don't have the "big" door so every now and then you can go "upstairs and wave out the windows at the "nosy lookie loo's" Wink
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
belfert
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« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2011, 08:26:05 AM »

Why don't you just build a house on the other lot?  One with a very big front door and open floor plan Wink

I'll let you propose that to the city on my behalf.  I don't want to get laughed out of city hall.

Seriously, the requirements for a house would require a lot of extra stuff not required for an accessory structure.  I would need a working kitchen, working heat, and a working bathroom amongst other things.  There is also the little issue of needing a variance to build a house on that lot as it was platted in 1880 and no longer meets the minimum lot width in the city.  If I couldn't share the driveway with my current house it would be extremely costly to build a driveway to that lot.  (There is a street back there, but there is a hydrant to be moved and a ditch to cross.)

I could barely afford to build a garage let alone a structure that is a pseudo house.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
boxcarOkie
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« Reply #53 on: March 07, 2011, 10:13:26 AM »


[/quote]I could barely afford to build a garage let alone a structure that is a pseudo house.
[/quote]

How about something like this?  All you need is a set of bigger doors (possibly a little height on the second floor) and you would be in business.


This barn structure is located on Route 66 just outside of Yukon, Oklahoma picture was taken 3-7-2011

BCO
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belfert
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« Reply #54 on: March 07, 2011, 10:57:06 AM »

I've actually considered a house kinda like that if I moved to a larger lot that allows large garages.  It doesn't help in my current situation as I could never afford to build a house on the back lot.

My thought for a future house with bus garage would be a house that is 48x50.  The first floor would be 40x50 of garage/shop and 8x50 for stairs to house portion and mechanicals.  Garage/shop portion would be 20x50 for a bus stall, 20x25 for auto garage, and 20x25 for a shop.  The building would be 20 feet tall.  The bus stall would be 20 feet tall inside.  The car/garage portion would be about 10 feet tall with the house portion being 8 feet tall. 

The house/apartment portion would be around 1100 square feet with two bedrooms, 1 bath, living room and kitchen.  Not huge, but enough for me.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
boxcarOkie
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« Reply #55 on: March 07, 2011, 11:13:31 AM »

The house/apartment portion would be around 1100 square feet with two bedrooms, 1 bath, living room and kitchen.  Not huge, but enough for me.

Sounds like a plan to me, go for it.

BCO
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #56 on: March 07, 2011, 11:15:30 AM »

Tell the city you are going to build a house,....build the shell, and tell them that you ran out of money and will finish it "someday". Grin
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« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2011, 11:23:19 AM »

That don't work anymore ED little thing called a CO( certificate of occupation) now days they will not let you use the building till you have one the power co won't even give you permanent power.
Don't you love our government agencies local and federal
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« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2011, 01:27:40 PM »

hmm, what are the remodeling codes where you are? Maybe you could do an addon that had a large door and remodel your house around that?
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« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2011, 03:09:37 PM »

When I went back to Pa to take care of my Dad I tried to list his tiny house that was on a good sized lot and had a rental on it.  No can do I was told.  Huge code violations.  So I had a GC come over and talk to me about my "remodel project" that I didn't want.  Truthfully, I wanted to turn my back on the place and move back out to Orygun.  The Ol'e man flipped at the thought of abandoning his "house".  I promised him I would let him stay there for two years and then it was Oregun bound.  Not having full mobility due to arth and knees I figured I could do the remodel in two years almost alone.  Sooooo the GC and I got together.  I didn't know at the time that I was a undiagnosed Type 2 Diabetic and that my blood sugars were hovering around 3 to 400 which is stroke, blindness, kidney failure and foot amputation territory not to mention severe and chronic fatigue.


The rear porch and the roof supports were rotted and the porch was a "crash right thru" and the roof was a "DANGER... FALLING ROOF" affair. 

The AC had unsupported freon lines that were 20 feet long from the 20 year ago install that I had always pondered as "just plain stupid" but I hadn't been there for the install and it was for sure I would be there fir the "FIX".  I know, I know, now lets not be too hasty in judging those craftsmen as they had to make a killing off this job to support their gambling or womanizing or drinking habits and after all, who can blame them?  Right?  I'll tell you who.

He mentioned that the toilet must have clogged up regularly right from the start and I asked if he was Claire Voyant?  It had, in fact.  From the day they moved in and they never had it fixed and it was a problem from day one.  he pointed out that the drain was sloped in the wrong direction and $#!% doesn't flow UPHILL..  Claire Voyant and a rocket scientist to boot.  I never noticed it before.

The water heater was leaking.

The furnace was not putting out enuf heat and that was due to a frozen valve that had been set in the "1/4 on" posit I won't hazard to guess just when.

Water flow at the faucets was down to slightly more than a trickle.  The line feed had been changed over to copper and I thought I might be on a roll right there but I wasn't.  Not even close.  The copper fed a reduced 2 inch black iron, steel actually, pipe usually used in natural gas circumstances.  That fed 1 1/2 inch black iron and then it reduced to 1/2 inch galvanized.  This wasn't a "stack" of reducers but long runs of the different materials. I pointed that out to the GC and he offered that these houses were built when the steel mills were in full swing.  People built houses from the stuff they could steal from the mills or pick up as scrap.  Builder owners and contractos alike.

The house was under powered and I had to install a new box and run all sorts of lines....including the AC compressor which had no cut off breaker, fuse or switch within 10 feet and actually had none at all save the main breaker.  Fire trap!  The original box had a single fuse and the GC said that on day one the house was not legal.

Sheet rock the entire interior and rip out multiple layers of paneling.

The roof, while recently shingled, had had a leak engineered into the job.  The leak had rotted an interior wall and staircase.

The basement had a torrent of water move thru it during every rain.  I suggested damming it and going for the hydroelectric power angle.  GC said it would bust code and more than a few guts in laughter.  Ever the visionary, I proceeded to ID the sources and resolve those issues.  A biggie was the crevasse in the front porch steps that dumped all the water that fell in the front yard int the basement via the gas line feed he had buried in sand.  I was there for that event as I stayed home from school to help.  Whu Knu?

The foundation had a big collapse headed inward tilt in one corner and all the blocks were loose.

All the power had to be pulled in to replace the "rubber coated extension cord wire" that was in the walls.  Another steel mill acquisition, no doubt.  And yes it crumpled in your hand and exposed copper wire.  Why it never burned is a mystery.

Replace rotted flooring around the toilet.

replace tile in bath and kitchen and remove all carpet for the "layer".  Saved a buck for Pap.

And just too  very much work to list.  Took me the two years but I was seriously sick.

I asked the GC if he had ever seen such a collection of disasters before.  He answered "Sure, there didn't used to be any required permit or inspection unless you requested it.  Then they implemented building code but didn't actually enforce it and then when they did enforce it you could pay the inspector $20 to "not come in".  He even offered that at one time you could build a three story apartment bldg with a permit for a single family dwelling if you greased the inspector's palm with $100.  Pennsyltucky!!!! Angry

This might seem to be a story limited to Civil Servant bashing and that would be false.  It is about building inspection, permits and standards of construction.  You and I don't need to be told to do the right, or sane or fair thing.  We will do that regardless of regs.  But we are not the only ones out there and the only ones really pining for the good old days are unscrupulous contractors.  You got too much Gummint?  Vote.  You don't like it?  Go down to city hall and complain, talk to the council, write letters.  I did and that started the ball rolling that got a "non fireable" civil servant fired.  God knows I have issues with local and fed Gummint.  I swear I do on my mother's grave.  I won't trade the devil I know for one that I know is worse.  Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

In my two purchases of VA financed homes the VA stepped in and forced the contractor to upgrade the property to meet the original plans that were submitted to the VA the VA bought off on and in another they forced a $5K discount for my Pac Ocean view because they said that the view was over priced and it was unobstructed.  In the second case the local inspector didn't notice that the walkways were not as wide and shape as required by code.  Can you just imagine the bitter comments and sour grapes that that contractor had to spew to all that would listen?  And all he had to do at the outset was live up to his end of the contract.......rotten, infernal,. meddlesome GUMMINT.  They have certainly been a thorn in my side on occasion and I have had to involve the inspection appeals board and supervisors to get matters resolved.  Then I appealed to the commission that I was forced to take such troublesome actions and cause such expense to both me and the city with the appeals.  First they gave me what I deserved in the first place and after a lot of hassle.  Then I turned around and shoved a sharp stick in their eye by going over all their heads to the commission.  Fair's fair.  FU....F back.  I got lots of time.  That may be bad news for you.  My friends think it is a serious plus.

Not to be picking on you Clifford or BCO.  I love ya both. Admiration and respect is also in there besides the raw emotion. Grin

John
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