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Author Topic: tried to start the new to me 4103.....no go  (Read 7015 times)
Rick59-4104
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« on: March 04, 2011, 06:30:51 PM »

 I drained 40 gallons of old diesel out of the 4103 (that hurt) it was probably about 15 years old. Flushed the tank with a couple of gallons of fresh diesel, undid the fuel line from the bottom of the fuel tank and from the primary filter, lightly blew the fuel line out. I changed both fuel filters, put in 10 gallons of fresh diesel, added fuel to the new filters and cranked her over. Nada nothing, pulled the filters a couple of times added fuel to the primary filter a couple of times, gave her a few shots of WD40 down the intake. I had the air hose from the intake to the air filters off in case I needed to cover the intake in case of a runaway. Still did not hit. A couple of very short shots of starting fluid (I don't like to use it), nothing.  By then it was well past dark so stopped til tomorrow. I have read that WD 40 is good (better than starting fluid) to use on a engine that has been sitting.

I suspect air in the system?  Tried to start both from the rear and the drivers seat. I was manually working the emergency shut off flap so it was open when I was cranking.

Should it have hit a time or 2 with the WD40 or the starting fluid?

Any advice appreciated!!


Rick


 
 
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 06:35:42 PM by Rick59-4104 » Logged

NW Arkansas
1959 GM 4104  No. 4115
1972 Grumman Kurbmaster Stepvan Conversion
1957 Airstream 13 panel Overlander
luvrbus
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2011, 06:52:23 PM »

 you need pull the valve cover off and make sure no injectors are stuck if one is stuck closed on the 71 with the 2 screw adjustment it won't fire

good luck
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Rick59-4104
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2011, 07:18:07 PM »

 Thanks, I am reading past posts on stuck injectors..this could be the problem as I was not getting any smoke at all out of the exhaust and it was cranking over good. Not sure how to tell if an injector is stuck.

Rick
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NW Arkansas
1959 GM 4104  No. 4115
1972 Grumman Kurbmaster Stepvan Conversion
1957 Airstream 13 panel Overlander
gus
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2011, 07:33:56 PM »

Rick,

That is a very long fuel line to the primary filter and it totally depends on suction from the mechanical pump after the primary filter. This pump will not suck enough fuel that distance to fill the supply line and filter without killing your starter and batts.

So, you need to disconnect the fuel supply line at the tank and pump fuel from there through the line until you have fuel coming out of the top of the primary filter with no air bubbles. There should be a plug on top of the filter mount that can be removed.

You can use a cheap 12v auto fuel pump to do this, all you have to do is fill the line and filter, it only takes five minutes or so.

Your fuel pickup at the tank could easily be clogged, this method will check that out also.

Obviously the secondary filter needs to be filled as well, do this at the filter. I would try this before doing anything with the injectors. You have to have fuel under pressure to the injectors before you can troubleshoot them.

If it sounds as if I've done this, I have. The 4104 system is probably identical to the 4103.

If you get it started and it looses prime we can go to step two.

Starting fluid is good if the fuel lines and injectors are full, but it solves nothing without fuel available at the injectors. You should have a small cup on the top of the air box that is designed for starting fluid, just a small amount and a wait of a minute or so and that works every time. However, I don't recommend you use SF in this mile weather, it is not necessary.
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PD4107-152
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2011, 07:44:38 PM »

But ...... a shot of ether and not even a wimper? Also 10 gallons of fuel is not enough to keep everything primed.
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2011, 07:47:49 PM »

Both my bus manuals recommend at least ten gallons when prime is lost.
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PD4107-152
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Rick59-4104
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2011, 07:54:00 PM »

 I'll put in 50.00  Angry more dollars worth of diesel tomorrow and try the fuel pump to fill the line... I guess if diesel gets above $5.00 a gallon and it won't start I can always park it out by the pond, put a front porch on it and call it a guest house Cheesy


Thanks!


Rick
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 11:14:43 PM by Rick59-4104 » Logged

NW Arkansas
1959 GM 4104  No. 4115
1972 Grumman Kurbmaster Stepvan Conversion
1957 Airstream 13 panel Overlander
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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2011, 08:00:32 PM »

 Smiley Smiley That'll work Rick. Hell if it's got an awning you may have a hard time getting the ole lady back in the house!! Smiley
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Seven Heaven.... I pray a lot every time I head down the road!!
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Barn Owl
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2011, 08:06:10 PM »

I don't think WD-40 is the same anymore and worthless for use as a substitute starting fluid. I don't have any personal experience with it because I use ether. If you are not getting a hit on ether, then you didn't put enough in it.
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L. Christley - W3EYE Amateur Extra
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2011, 08:18:01 PM »

WD-40 is not your grandpa's WD-40. I think it used to have propane in it. I still laugh remembering watching some idiot spray WD into an electric drill that was squeeling while he pulled the trigger! POOF!!!The dude looked like Elmer Fudd after that!!!! No eyebrows!!!! I pissed my pants laffin!!! Grin Grin
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Seven Heaven.... I pray a lot every time I head down the road!!
Bad decisions make good stories.
Rick59-4104
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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2011, 11:30:42 PM »

 All right guys, I just read over on the Detroit Diesel Site how to fill the system with fuel after you run one out........take a inner tube and cut a plate size piece out with the valve stem in the middle, take the fuel cap off, with a hose clamp clamp the piece of inner tube to the fuel filler neck with the valve in the center, take your air chuck, set the regulator on the compressor to 3 to 5 pounds of pressure and air it up just until the tube swells, as the air pushes the fuel you might have to add more air (said to be careful and not put too much pressure to it) crack a line at the secondary filter to let air out and the air pressure you put in the fuel tank will fill the lines and the filters with fuel.

 Be careful not to put too much pressure in the tank as someone over there said you might damage the fuel pump as fuel will not flow past the gears. They say 3 to 5 Lbs, the guy with the inner tube idea said air it up until the tube swells. The way I understand it is you are filling the lines and filters with diesel to the fuel pump, the pump will take it from there

  Will try this tomorrow.

Rick
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 07:05:45 AM by Rick59-4104 » Logged

NW Arkansas
1959 GM 4104  No. 4115
1972 Grumman Kurbmaster Stepvan Conversion
1957 Airstream 13 panel Overlander
RichardEntrekin
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« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2011, 02:56:26 AM »

I used a cheap bug sprayer from Lowes to reprime my system after tearing into the engine. I cut the spray nozzle off and jammed the spray hose into the fuel lines. Worked like a dream.

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Richard Entrekin
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Barn Owl
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« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2011, 06:17:15 AM »

My father lost prime in a diesel car he had when changing filters. Decided to prime by putting an air chuck to the fuel tank without any thought of how much pressure to use. It didn't take much to make the tank go round and increase his fuel capacity by several gallons  Shocked. He had to get a new tank because his now modified tank would drag the ground. I think the inner-tube idea is very creative and wish you much success. Let us know and post some photos if you get a chance.
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L. Christley - W3EYE Amateur Extra
Blue Ridge Mountains, S.W. Virginia
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Have fun, be great, that way you have Great Fun!
Rick59-4104
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« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2011, 06:48:33 AM »

 Now if lost prime is just my only problem...... as luvrbus said in his post I may also have a stuck injector...Cold here today so I will probably not get much done on the bus.

Rick
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NW Arkansas
1959 GM 4104  No. 4115
1972 Grumman Kurbmaster Stepvan Conversion
1957 Airstream 13 panel Overlander
rbrlsn
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« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2011, 06:49:44 AM »

If it's easy to get to, you can get you a 5 gallon bucket of diesel and drop a line from the tank side of the filter so you know the fuel to the engine is not the issue. Just a way of bypassing the long fuel line from the tank, lot easier to draw from 5 feet away rather than 20feet. Also if the fuel line has the issue you will know. If it doesn't bust off with a few shots of ether there is another problem, that stuff is liquid adrenaline for a diesel.
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