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Author Topic: tried to start the new to me 4103.....no go  (Read 6624 times)
Rick59-4104
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« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2011, 02:54:32 PM »

 I read somewhere and cannot find it now that on the 4103's the rack will stay in the no fuel position until you press the fuel pedal? I did this several times but it did not seem too do anything. The only thing I see connected to the injector control tube that would prevent it from turning other than a stuck injector is the shut off rod at the right end and the governer rod at the other end of the tube. I have disconnected both of these rods.



Dallas?? Anyone heard from Dallas?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 03:10:13 PM by Rick59-4104 » Logged

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buswarrior
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« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2011, 03:48:02 PM »

Go find him over on BNO.

The rack isn't in the shut off position, is it?

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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luvrbus
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« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2011, 03:59:34 PM »

If you have one injector stuck in the no fuel position with the old style fuel rod they are all closed, that is same with one stuck open that is why the oldies have emergency shut down
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2011, 04:01:46 PM »

Kind of like the old Christmas tree lights!! Wink
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« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2011, 04:27:57 PM »

. . . When the engine is cranking the rocker arms are not touching the top of the injectors...

Ouch! That's bad.

Hopefully it's an issue of gum and not rust. In addition to the luvrbus soak treatment you could try carb cleaner.

On future starting attempts, be sure to have a 100% positive stop plate ready to immediately choke this engine, in case of runaway. Even "gagged" it could carry on for some time, and you won't be able to stand the eye-burning smoke for long, so it'd also be good to be ready-N-able to quickly cut the fuel supply too.

---
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 04:33:56 PM by TedsBUSted » Logged

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bigjohnkub
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« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2011, 11:52:43 AM »

My personal experience only. New W_D 40 will not start and engine as the propellant( which was propane) has been changed to something else so paint sniffers won't use it.
  Big John
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« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2011, 03:38:28 PM »

Cliff,

You're right, I was thinking of my Dodge Cummins pickup which is 26 lbs.

Rick,

I'm pretty sure the 4103 and 4104 are the same, when it is shut off and air goes down the rack is in the run position.
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holmgrenj
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« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2011, 07:15:14 PM »

I had some stuck injectors in a 2cyl. detroit what i did was use a socket where the rocker rides and give it a smack to jar the plunger loose then it worked to make sure the motor was worth putting new injectors in. i would say they are stuck so you will need to do some thing to get them loose or replace. just an idea. that worked for me. if you try don't hit it full blow right off the get go mine i didn't have to hit real hard for them to brake loose
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Rick59-4104
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« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2011, 11:58:19 PM »

  Yes, I would like to get the injectors unstuck and see if the engine is worth sinking any money into without putting new injectors in....underneath the valve cover everything looks good, no rust or built up deposits so I think they or some are just stuck. Might take a piece of hardwood or a brass rod and lightly tap on the tops of the injectors??  Is this something I should or should not do?

 Rick
« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 12:25:31 AM by Rick59-4104 » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2011, 05:36:28 AM »

I have a couple of sticky injectors and Don Fairchild advised hooking a pump up to the fuel rails in the head and pumping paint thinner through.  I wouldn't even consider cranking that engine until the injectors are all free and the racks are all moving evenly.  The book says that the governor puts the injectors in the full fuel position when the engine is stopped.  It goes to idle fuel when it starts and gets up to around 500 rpm,  and goes to no fuel to stop or on overrun.

Worst case pull all the injectors and put rebuilt ones in.  One sticky injector can lock them all in full fuel and cause the run-away.

Brian
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« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2011, 05:54:57 AM »

Depends on what governor and shut down he has Brian he working on 6L probably has the shut down up front on the head mounted to head and fuel rod not on the governor and FWIW only the old 2 screw fuel rod will let the engine run away you will not have that problem with the single screw spring loaded rod

good luck
« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 06:04:07 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2011, 06:08:33 PM »

Lots of good discussion here. But a basic diagnostic tool in a case like this for me is Ether. It should fire with ether, shouldn't it? We've started many a two stroke and four stroke diesel that had fuel problems using ether. Obviously you don't want to run it for any amount of time but a good shot of ether with a good starter and properly functioning valves should start it. Then diagnose your fuel problem. This engine sounds to me like its got something else going on?? Compression + ether should = revolutions.
Fred
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Fred Thomson
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« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2011, 06:30:09 PM »

Fred is right, it should start with a small shot of starting fluid, the air intake system is completely separated from the fuel system.

I presume the 4103 has the small ether cup on top of the air box, a very small squirt into the cup will make it at least start unless something really major is wrong.
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JohnEd
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« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2011, 06:56:44 PM »

One of the worst things that can happen in a trouble shooting exercise is to get some test result wrong.  You are making mistakes from that fork in the road onward.  In this case it is that a DD will run on ONLY either.  Now I think it should and that makes sense to me BUT people here say that either only works if there is fuel getting to the engine so there is at least some fuel and either in the cylinder.  I guess that would limit its usefulness to conditions like a restrictive filter, low fuel pressure, cold block....but at least some fuel getting thru.  I don't know but I think you should determine if this lie is true.

Good luck,

John

I always opted to use copious amts of either and run it on the either while spraying the stuff in the intake but RW says I am lucky to have not killed myself. Ha, I out smarted the Universe again.  Or was it....?  Be careful.  You know, don't try this at home.
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Barn Owl
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« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2011, 07:30:26 PM »

Quote
people here say that either only works if there is fuel getting to the engine so there is at least some fuel and either in the cylinder.

I have let that one pass several times to avoid arguments and making someone else wrong. With that being said, I can demonstrate that ether works very well by itself.
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