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Author Topic: Cost of inframe overhaul for 8V71, 8V92 and 6V92.  (Read 6178 times)
JohnEd
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« on: March 09, 2011, 07:11:54 PM »

Can anyone quote the approx costs for these engines?  Is Don still alive?  Anybody else have numbers.  I once heard $13K (worst case) for a 8 V 71.

Maybe some of you could share what you paid.

Thanks,

John
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busnut104
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2011, 07:29:27 PM »

Last winter I had a 8v92 in my dump truck done ( inframe) The cost was around 5000 dollars, I had one new head and a used head and a good blower, So the cost would have been much more if I would not have had these parts. What I got for the 5000 was a piston and liner kits, new rod and mains, gaskets, Installing new valve and ect in the head and going over the other head cking injectors and what ever they needed maybe a coupl of new ones and labor. Maybe some other little things. Working good.
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chart1
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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2011, 08:01:02 PM »

I have a friend of mine up here who is a 25 year 2 stroke guy from detroit shop in next town over now retired. I pulled the motor. I paid 1600 for out of frame kit. Paid him 1500 hundred. I didnt have to have any machine work done everything was in specs. So it was 3100.00 for me. But I did the R&R
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2011, 08:34:02 PM »

  These two jobs above, was this DD genuine parts, or Chinese? IIRC, Luke at US Coach said about $200 a hole for a DD genuine liner piston set, plus gaskets, bearings, head work, you would be over $2K in parts. Ive seen China kits at $148 per hole which is why im asking.

  Not saying the Chinese stuff is bad stuff, just not anything I would ever want to put into my motor. US, Mex, SA, Taiwan, S Korea, but not China, sorry. 

  The more work you can do yourself, the more labor you save. Just take pics and keep reciepts
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chart1
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2011, 08:37:26 PM »

No mine were not DD parts. But they are made in USA by Federal Mogual
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 08:40:21 PM by chart1 » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2011, 09:03:45 PM »

No mine were not DD parts. But they are made in USA by Federal Mogual

  Cool. Wonder if FM is OEM to DD.
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papatony
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2011, 10:55:33 PM »

   If FM isn't oem there about the best you can get. I did an in frame replaced every thing,rebuilt the blower, rebuilt cams for about 7,000. A friend did all of the rebuild for me or it would have about 2 grand more.
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chart1
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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2011, 11:19:30 PM »

   If FM isn't oem there about the best you can get. I did an in frame replaced every thing,rebuilt the blower, rebuilt cams for about 7,000. A friend did all of the rebuild for me or it would have about 2 grand more.

that must of been with new heads , injectors everything new. Best price I found was www.agkits.com
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JohnEd
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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2011, 01:06:51 AM »

Chart,

FP kit lists for 1395 for all 8 cylinders and a bearing set plus.  That is $170 per cylinder with all the parts and gaskets.  Federal Mogul is supposed to be the equal of DD and FM gives a 2 year warranty.

Thank you and the others for the information.  With a contact like your neighbor I feel more secure about this adventure.  I have friends over on the coast that have a retired 2 stroke guy take of their 4905 and they are delighted.  Friends and contacts, never fails no matter the racket.

Thanks again,

John
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brando4905
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2011, 03:49:29 AM »

John,

Just got an inframe a couple months ago, all said and done around $5k. Rebuild kit was $1375, Interstate-McBee brand, made in Taiwan. I also took both heads to another shop and had them rebuilt. I believe the price DD quoted me per hole was closer to $250 per.

This is what was included in my kit,
In-Frame Kit:

8 x Liner Kits (Includes set of crevice seals)

8 x Piston Crown

8 x Piston Skirt

8 x Piston Ring-Sets

8 x Piston Pin

16 x Piston Pin Bolts

16 x Spacers

8 x Piston Pin Slipper Bearings

1 x Head Gasket Set

1 x Main Bearing Set (Std.)

1 x Rod Bearing Set (Std.)

1 x Thrust Washer Set

1 x Rocker Cover Gasket

1 x Oil Pan Gasket


So far, so good, 50 psi oil pressure at 1800 rpms.

Brandon
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luvrbus
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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2011, 05:49:34 AM »

Clevite has one of the best kits that is the one I use for after market a 6v92 kit is around 2000 bucks FP and FM are the same outfit you never know where they made,don't forget Don he has good engines kits for clean engines.
I am watching this one so many variations on what you guys are calling a in frame, been awhile since Luke bought liners at DD lol I have 8 for a 8v92 485.00 each last week, I ran across a special on 71 liners and piston for 25 bucks each new but found out they were military the guy was trying to pawn those off as turbo pistons and liners for a 71 series


good luck
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belfert
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« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2011, 05:54:40 AM »

Can an 6V92/8V92/8V71 really be inframed inside the bus like they do on semi tractors and other trucks?

I suspect I could find someone to inframe my Series 60 in the bus since the valve cover comes off from inside the bus, but I expect the extra labor might pay to just remove the engine from the bus.
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« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2011, 06:04:49 AM »

They can Brian but to me it is a lot easier just to roll the engine out it is a bitch trying to install the heads and keeping the oring gaskets in place on a 2 stroke  on a Eagle on the right side 2 hrs the engine is out where you can get at it.
Dealer do not like to roll the engine out as one told me if the transmission, clutch or anything goes later they get the blame because they had it out with the engine lol so that is why dealers spend more time doing it in the bus 


good luck
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belfert
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« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2011, 08:16:03 AM »

Inframing an engine is probably one place where spending more on a better inframe kit is probably a good idea.  Do you really want to be replacing a broekn part of the internals of your engine.  An extra $500 or whatever would seem cheeap if one had to pay twice for labor.

A good shop will warranty the labor if they supply the inframe kit, but not all shops will do so.  Even if you can get free labor do you really want a blown engine to ruin your trip?
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2011, 08:50:19 AM »

Don't forget that if you in-frame you can't replace or inspect the rear seals, the pilot bearing, the throwout bearing (assuming a manual trans).  All three were bad or about to be bad soon on my engine. 

Brian
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luvrbus
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« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2011, 09:16:45 AM »

One thing you guys need to remember is a in frame on a high mileage engine is just to squeeze a few more miles from the engine before the big one I personally am not a huge fan of the in frame

good luck
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 09:19:54 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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belfert
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« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2011, 10:10:55 AM »

They can Brian but to me it is a lot easier just to roll the engine out it is a bitch trying to install the heads and keeping the oring gaskets in place on a 2 stroke  on a

On a Dina bus they don't have a nice engine cradle like most other buses.  Dina has a fairly beefy frame at the rear that runs up to the drive axle.  The engine is mounted directly to the frame with motor mounts.  I would really hope the radiator wouldn't have to come out to remove the engine as that is a 4 hour project alone for two strong guys.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2011, 10:38:15 AM »

Many years ago I was a Master Distributor for Clevite and FP.    It was very interesting to know "who" actually made what.   Mahle owns Clevite right now.   15 years ago, 80% of the liners in the US were contracted to Mahle.   Things changed when the plant burnt.    Cat was the first to have issue with the "brittle" liners.   I have 6 warranty claims where 8V71 liners were split all due to case hardening issues that the new plant was having.   

Perfect circle rings were in the Clevite family.   The were private labeled to FP.   Alot of the OEM pistons were cast in FP plants and final machined in different companies.    You could have Victor Reinz gaskets and OEM FP gaskets in both kits.    For good customers that maintained there own fleet, I had a master list of various kits that were genuine Original Equipment suppliers to either Cat or Detroit.  You could order a Cat Clevite 3406B 9 degree rod piston and it had the CAT logo..   

There is alot of garbage out there.   If one doesn't want to buy from Detroit,  try to purchase Original Manufacturer components>  this is different from OEM.   Labor is so expensive, saving $400 in a inframe kit isn't worth doing it over again.   
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« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2011, 02:39:09 PM »

 Labor is so expensive, saving $400 in a inframe kit isn't worth doing it over again.   

   All the more reason for a DIY'er to buy the very best parts. Your doing your own work to save money on the job, and doing the job to fend off trouble away from home, to hopefully save even more money. Cheap parts are poor economy.

    
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busnut104
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« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2011, 03:17:10 PM »

I have used Fel-Pro Kits with no issues. I know of one shop that give you the option of FP or DD they say that they use 90% FP. These guys do a lot of engines and mainly DD.
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2011, 05:20:25 PM »

It's kind of like marine engines. You are supposed to buy marine quality only. The bearings all say Clevite 77 on them regardless. So the quality of a kit I buy for a race car engine that I plan to torture is not as good as the marine kit that never sees 5 grand? I guess my biggest issue anymore is the poor quality of items we grew up with that were top of the line.
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« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2011, 05:28:23 PM »

Scott, I used the Clevite sliver coated marine bearings in my 8v92 nice bearings but a little pricey for the average rebuild lol


good luck 
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« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2011, 05:33:55 PM »

I haven't done any motors for probably  7 or 8 years now but I can't remember ever having bearings that didn't have Clevite stamped on them.
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chart1
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« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2011, 08:07:17 PM »

What would be the difference between the marine and land bearing they both are in the oilpan with oil ? Maybe it cost more because it says marine.
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« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2011, 08:08:29 PM »

  Ive seen quite a few Vandervell bearings in european stuff. What made me laugh was finding Clevites in a Vandervell box, and vice versa.

  Bearings are all pretty simular in quality, never seen or heard of a problem with bearings. Gaskets and seals are a different story, especially head gaskets, as there are often different levels of quality even within the same manufacturer. Scott, you mentioned Marine vs a race motor. Marine engines work hard continuously, which put a different strain on things. But your right, good gaskets are good gaskets.

  Some shops will put in the cheapest parts they can find wholesale, and charge you the inflated retail price of OEM parts along with the labor. Thats how crooked shops make money. Ive known and heard of shops that even put down the OE part number on the invoice just to be more convincing. When your doing this stuff yourself, a site like this can be of great benefit by using the parts places others know about and recommend and who offer REAL OEM parts at reasonable cost. Aftermarket is good for some stuff, but not usually inside an engine where the labor to fix it is in the 20 to 40 hour range (or more), and when the damage it can cause is in the thousands.

  By selecting factory and OE parts, you have a much better start at building a good engine. Poor quality gaskets and seals, even when the innards are good, can make for a real headache when the suckers bleeding oil like a sieve. Or having real good gaskets and seals, and junk parts that just arent working out well giving you a big clattering smoker. BTDTHTS. The really stupid part is hearing this stuff, or actually knowing it (and I was hearing it when I was 15), and buying the cheap parts anyway. I still catch myself doing it, only know I want to kick my own ____!

  Then too, you have to watch out for counterfit parts. They put the cheapo stuff in the factory box, you get screwed, they make BIG bucks. Another reason for using a supplier a lot of people know and trust.
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« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2011, 08:14:43 PM »

What would be the difference between the marine and land bearing they both are in the oilpan with oil ? Maybe it cost more because it says marine.

Marine parts are rust proofed! Wink
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« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2011, 08:19:31 PM »

Cory, the sliver bearing will run 3 or 400 thousand miles without problems regular bearing need to be replaced in 2 stroke at 100 to 150 thousand miles and me I don't like replacing those nasty things and I don't like oil in my face lol

good luck
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chart1
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« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2011, 08:32:12 PM »

Cory, the sliver bearing will run 3 or 400 thousand miles without problems regular bearing need to be replaced in 2 stroke at 100 to 150 thousand miles and me I don't like replacing those nasty things and I don't like oil in my face lol

good luck

I don't mind replacing the bearings every 10 years .....100,000 miles /10,000 miles a year= 10 years.. LOL Huh
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