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Author Topic: Super single tires on a coach  (Read 3932 times)
chart1
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« on: March 10, 2011, 07:47:36 PM »

I have seeing these super single tires being used for the past couple years on semi's. It is one wide tire that is in place of the dual wheels. Has anyone tried these on a coach yet ? Just google super single tire.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 07:56:48 PM by chart1 » Logged

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luvrbus
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2011, 07:59:00 PM »

Cory, couple of Eagles running around with extra wide on the front and boogie with single rears I'll see if I can find a photo for you they look good that is about all I know.
Rusty here on the board is installing that setup on his Eagle and some factory Prevost have the wide on the front and tag with single on the drivers it just doesn't look right on a bus lol 


good luck
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chart1
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2011, 08:01:52 PM »

What is the purpose of wide on the front?
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luvrbus
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2011, 08:06:50 PM »

45 ft buses can get heavy on the front Prevost have always been heavy on the front when converted
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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2011, 08:07:52 PM »

The front can get over weight in a hurry. The rear will be good but front could get close if not over the weight limit in a hurry. When you have a wider tire you will be allowed more weight up to a point depending on what state you are in.

My Take

John
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chart1
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2011, 08:09:23 PM »

wouldn't they be harder to steer in snowy weather.
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2011, 08:10:15 PM »

45' Setra's have the same issue about being heavy on the front! (wanna know how I know?)
Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2011, 08:13:14 PM »

  With the right wheels it could look very hot on a two axle Bus. Giant 22.5 Cragars lol. The spare could be a problem though.
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Tim Strommen
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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2011, 09:55:50 PM »

It's not just the tires you need to worry about for weight, the axle rating is also a concern, and you need to look at your max weights...

Putting them in the front axle will require checking clearances and suspension tweaks, and may affect the steering geometry negatively.

Personally, I like them, and I'd like to find a way to get them put on, but I wouldn't want to do it unless all axles, wheels, and tires were matched (would let me carry just one spare).  It could be done, a 13K-lb front axle and a 26K-lb axle can be substituted with three 13K-lb axles by installing another rear axle, and replace the 26K existing rear axle with another 13K-lb axle. Michelin XZY (wb) tires mounted on 13" wheels...  Nice Smiley

-T
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TomC
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2011, 10:09:24 PM »

The original idea for running super single X-one's on the drive axle was that you could either use the 445/50R-22.5 to replace the 295/75 or 275/80R-22.5 and the 455/55R-22.5 to replace the 11R-22.5 tires.  To do so, the rims on the super singles had a 2" offset to the outside to put the outside of the tire at the same location as the duals outside edge.  The problem with this is that it put undue stress on the outer axle bearing causing many bearing failures.  So much so, that now, Freightliner will only install the X-one super singles on the drive axles only if the new 4" wider axles are ordered so that you can run a 0" offset wheel that distributes the weight equally to the two axle bearings-thus eliminating premature bearing failure.  You can still take the super singles off and replace them with duals as designed before, only now the duals will be very close to the 102" wide overall width-which may look a bit funny since the front truck power units are still being made at 96" width.  Personally-I would run them on the front axle for more weight carrying-but the 315/80R-22.5 is rated up to 18,000lbs at 75mph or the 20ply high weight version at 20,000lbs at 65mph.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2011, 04:41:01 AM »

I have heard you get a milage gain also. Thanks Tom for the bearing tutorial. had heard about bearing issues but never explained.
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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2011, 05:44:13 AM »

Tom, to put in perspective for a busnut, the shortened bearing life was how much less, and whether that would be an issue for a busnut and our usually paltry mileage?

Super Singles do have some improvement in fuel mileage due to the one tire having less rolling resistance than a pair of traditional dual tires, and some weight savings with a larger single rim, and the bigger single tire weighs less than two.

The resistance to switching to singles now for new equipment has more to do with emotion than science.

happy coaching!
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robertglines1
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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2011, 05:51:18 AM »

Blow a drive tire and your down on rims/and suspension really quick!. Out of controll? definite can't limp in on one tire. or out of traffic.  not like a semi with 2 drive axles.  Look cool!    Bob
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2011, 06:10:32 AM »

Blow a drive tire and your down on rims/and suspension really quick!. Out of controll? definite can't limp in on one tire. or out of traffic.  not like a semi with 2 drive axles.  Look cool!    Bob

I have to agree, they look good, and in light weight situations I guess they do the job, lot of tankers are running them and Prime Inc has switched over to them also.  But I would be worried about the flat tire issue, once they go down, you are somewhat out of action.

BCO
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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2011, 06:31:33 AM »

In my travels I have never saw one with a flat have any of you guys ?


good luck
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« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2011, 06:38:11 AM »

Not on bus (flat) but several semi down /one on trailer. Have been told by trucking company owners they tell driver to try to get out of traffic and call for help. Might limp in on a blown dual /have seem that also. or to nearest exit.    Bob
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« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2011, 07:00:19 AM »

Love to see some pic's...Anyone?  Grin M&C
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TomC
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« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2011, 07:39:16 AM »

I know Michelin had some videos showing the X-ones used on a bus and having a blow out.  The bus did NOT go out of control as many may think.

I know on a tandem big rig, switching from 8 tires mounted on aluminum rims to 4 X-ones on aluminum rims (steel is not offered) lightens the truck by about 300lbs.  Use them in front and change the trailer steel rims to the aluminum rim super singles, and you lighten up the entire rig by about 700lbs.  If paid by the hundred weight, that can add up over the life of the rig.  Plus, when used on the drive and trailer axles, the X-ones will increase your fuel mileage by 5%.

As to blow out, fleets that are using the X-ones have reported their flat rate to go down to 15%-mainly because normal dual tires are 14ply compared to the X-ones that are 20ply rated.

Personally-if I were buying a big rig today, I'd get it with the X-ones on both the driver and trailer axles.  Then I would carry a full spare mounted on a wheel for easy flat change over-even with the weight of the spare, you'd still be ahead on the weight savings.  The cost of the X-ones-just shy of double the cost of regular tires.  So ultimately they cost the same.

The only bus I would run super singles on the drives would be a PD4501, Crown or Gillig tandem axle, or any other bus with full tandem axle setup (not with tags).  Stick with duals-unless you're putting on lots of miles by being full timers, you're not going to see the cost savings.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2011, 08:21:31 AM »

In my travels I have never saw one with a flat have any of you guys ?


good luck

In all fairness, neither have I.  But that still would be a concern to me personally.

BCO
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« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2011, 12:05:37 PM »

I am very much a "Do It Myself" person. I don't want to be waiting around for a service truck to change my flat tire and I sure don't want to pay their prices.

I carry a spare that fits both the front and rear.
If you have the super singles on the rear then the spare would not fit in the spare tire compartment, and you would have to carry two spares because most buses can not fit a super single on the front.

The other main reason I like having duels on the rear is if I get a flat on one I can limp down the road on the other till I get to a place to change the tire. I have had this happen already and was glad to be able to drive the bus down the road to a safe level spot.

If you are using a road service for your flat tires then I don't see any reason to carry a spare and you could go ahead and use the super single on the rear in place of the duels.


.
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« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2011, 12:55:53 PM »

If you guys want see a super single on a Eagle go to www.eaglesinternational.net click the project page check out Wayne Schell's (Rusty here) Eagle I think it page 5 or so then you can see first hand he is not going to give up the idea and I bet money he makes it work if it don't he will tell us   lol 


good luck
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« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2011, 03:46:24 PM »

..Blow a drive tire and your down on rims/and suspension really quick! Out of controll? definite can't limp in on one tire. or out of traffic...

Michelin has done a lot of PR safety demos showing that you have about the same control with a blown super-single as you do a blown dual or steer tire.  Accelerate briefly to keep control (don't jab the brakes), then slowly apply the brakes as you pull over.  If you start to get squirrely again, just add throttle.  Assuming you don't lose the sidewalls (usually from hitting curbs frequently or under-inflated tires), the aluminum wheels sit down on the squished sidewalls as well as a steel rim does.  So long as you handle it like it has a blown tire, you should be able to put on another tire without issues.

It's my opinion that everyone should have Tire-Pressure-Monitoring-Systems, and on vehicles after 2007 they are standard fare (though not necissarily with the full numeric readout).  Most tire problems, with the exception of internal manufacturing issues and road debris, can be diagnosed by your tire pressures and temperatures.

-T
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« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2011, 04:55:50 PM »

Well my dad actually runs them on his big truck(Michelin X-one's), if i remember correctly he gained a full MPG. They are nice in that they stay on top of the soft ground much better. He has had one blowout since installing them but those were recaps (he wanted to test them so bought recaps so it wouldn't be such a loss if they were junk) since then hes bought a new set (virgin rubber) and hasn't had any trouble's. Hopefully he will post and correct me if i stated anything wrong but he's over the road right now so i doubt he will get a chance anytime soon, thus the reason I posted this info. holmgrenj is his screen name on here. Also his steer tires are still a regular 22.5
Hope this at least helped a little,
                                            Mike
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« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2011, 05:02:55 PM »

Good response Mike. myself still on fence.
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« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2011, 06:14:23 PM »



Had to buy new tires for "HUGGY" before the trip to Jacks rally. Wanted super singles bad. I love big tires on the back of every vehicle. The main trouble for me was no stud centered wheels only hub.

Had to settle for a set of Hankooks.  Went from low profile Mic. to 11r24.5 and really like the difference
cruises down the interstate so much better. and helped my fuel mileage a bunch 6 going and7 coming back that makes 13 the way i figure.

uncle ned
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« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2011, 06:18:40 PM »

This is something I have been thinking about, I will be replacing the wheels and tires on the bus before doing any long distance stuff, and I think the singles have a good look. But was not sure they would work or even be legal. Something I like about the singles is the larger choice of wheels. One more thing to add to the wish list.
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« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2011, 08:13:24 PM »

If you go to the Michelin website it shows a video of a tanker during a blowout. Supposingly has better control than duals during blowouts. Cost is a bit much$950 each. My buddy runs a fleet of 12 super trains with these on trucks and trailers. He did gain fuel mileage but says the tires wear premature (he still likes them). Michelin gave him some crazy deal to do the switch when they were just coming on the market.
I looked at doing this but couldn't justify the $ against the possible fuel savings. If you run these on the front you are defeating the purpose. There's more weight and more friction than a standard single tire. My Setra comes stock with 315s and what I ended up putting back on there. You cannot increase your front axle weight rating just by using larger tires.
The x-one wheels are only available as hub piloted which makes it even more work and cost (changing hubs and drums)to convert for those of us with older buses.
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RJ
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« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2011, 02:02:00 AM »

All -

Somebody asked for photos, and TomC made the comment about only running super singles on a Scenicruiser, Crown or Gillig tandem.

Well, here you go - a Crown tandem that was spotted at the SaveMart Center in Fresno in August last year with super singles all around.  (Click on the image for full-size):

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