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Author Topic: Voltage drop and headlight voltage  (Read 3439 times)
rv_safetyman
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Jim Shepherd


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« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2011, 06:09:36 AM »

Brian, I use the hammer type crimper:

http://www.delcity.net/store/Solderless-Connector-Crimping-Tool/p_1027.a_1

Some folks don't like that tool, but I have made a ton of battery cables and other cables with it.

It is also possible to solder that connector.  Some folks are against that process, as the solder wicks up the cable and makes it stiff.

Jim

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Jim Shepherd
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Len Silva
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« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2011, 06:33:12 AM »

Having spent many years installing telephone company power, and lots of schooling on the subject, I would VERY STRONGLY recommend against the hammer crimp tool.

A properly crimped connection is not a simple thing.  It takes the correct lug and the correct tool to do the job.  These are not generally available outside of the trades.

The tool must be matched to the connector by manufacturer.  I prefer Thomas & Betts from many years of experience, but Panduit and Burndy are also highly regarded products.  You cannot properly use a tool from one manufacturer to crimp lugs made by another.  The proper tools are expensive, running into the hundreds of dollars for a basic hand tool.

The idea is that the lug and wire are fused into a single gas tight connection.

Here is a popular tool, the T&B TBM-6 and the instructions.  As you can see, it is more complicated than just crimping a lug as best you can.

The TBM-21 is a nice hand held tool good for #10 through #6.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Thomas-Betts-TBM21E-Color-Keyed-Crimper-/260750505216?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb5f0f500
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belfert
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« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2011, 07:14:28 AM »

The last time I crimped these type of lugs I used a hydraulic crimper that a friend of mine borrowed from an electrical contractor.  The contractor has a lot of extra tools right now due to the construction economy.  I was doing 4/0 lugs at that time.  My friend says that tool won't handle 8 AWG lugs.  The tool made real noce crimps.

Harbor Freight has a Central Pneumatic hydraulic crimper that says it has dies for everything from 2/0 down to 12 AWG.  I would rather not pay $60 for a crimper, but I might not have much choice.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2011, 08:05:57 AM »

I think the "hammer" and hydraulic crimpers are exclusively for the heavy gauge wire.  The smaller stuff that we typically use is more critical and uses precision terminals made for a specific conductor such as solid copper or 5 strand or more.  The crimp pressure and depth can weaken the wire or not create a reliable joint.  That small stuff, like Len said, is critical and those crimpers can cost thousands to be able to do a single type multi pin connector.  That was one of my lives in private industry as a lab tech.  We don't use that stuff thank G as it was a nightmare and the Fed inspected us for the correct tools and they needed to be calibrated and carry a stamp.  They were fussy about keeping the F4 Phantoms flying and not dropping out of the sky.

Soldering connectors is "old school".  Yes it will be possible to wick solder up a 2 ought cable but flex isn't a performance criteria in our stuff...at least not that much flex.  You get a lot of wicking by making the connector too hot and using too much solder and applying heat too long.  Like anything else it is technique.  I can't see people like us, doing these things as infrequently as we do ever getting qualified to do these tasks "properly'.  Lots of stuff is, in fact, like Horse Shoes......close counts and is good enuf.  Crimping became the standard cause it is cheaper in-terms of man-hours required and equipment and set-up.  Really big stuff can be hammered or squeezed cause the tolerances are broader.  I didn't know the crimpers like Jim mentioned were available nor that electricians use hydraulic powered tools in the field....sheltered life?  I have been assembling those heavy gauge connectors since I was in Vocational High School in Pa. and solder was the method, personal stuff done by the book, military, industry.  None of those were time critical for assembly and they weren't done often in those cases.  Soldering works just fine and has been doing so since we invented wire and had to connect it.  REMEMBER....ACID FREE solder and not that plumbing stuff or that stuff the sheet metal workers use or.... No matter how you wash it or flush it with alcohol or brush it...if you used acid core solder that joint will dissolve in a short period of time.....don't ask how I know that.  Always apply the heat to the connector and not the wire.

As a crew chief and supervisor I had to instruct my men in doing this as the tech schools never touched on it and there are no correspondence courses on the topic.  Q&A criteria though, for sure.

John
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Tim Strommen
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« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2011, 11:40:04 AM »

...I guess I can go with 8 AWG, but then I start to run into a lot more issues.  The 8 AWG terminals/lugs I don't have anything to crimp them on with.  I can crimp terminals onto 10 AWG wire all day long.  I also don't like the fact that all of the auto reset breakers that handle 15 or 20 amps at 24 volts are only #10 terminals.  I think the smaller terminals would introduce voltage loss.  I have attached a picture of an 8 AWG lug.  What type of crimper do I use for that?...


I picked up a Greenlee K09-2GL (list $250) crimper for tinned copper lugs on e-place for $50 a few years back.  Best $50 I ever spent.  Nice six-sided crimps with no sharp "overmold", and a strong bond to the cable.  It has rotating dies from 4/0 down to 8AWG, and really long handles for easier crimping the 4/0 cables (I still have to lean on it pretty hard though at my 165lbs).  Per the manual, it is UL Classified and CSA Listed for use with Blackburn, Burndy, ILSCO, Panduit, Thomas & Betts and Penn-Union copper connectors (just about every brand you can easily get your hands on).  A nice feature of this crimper is that it embosses the wire gauge into the lug for third-party crimp inspection afterwards Wink.

If you can be a bit patient or shell out a few extra bucks, I'm sure one will become available again on e-place (like this one currently at $99).

...Having spent many years installing telephone company power, and lots of schooling on the subject, I would VERY STRONGLY recommend against the hammer crimp tool...


I second this, I had tried the hammer type cripmer because it was a lot cheaper that a $300+ professional crimper (before I found the one on e-place and slapped my head for not thinking of looking there first) - I ended up destroying cables by missing with the hammer and damaging the cable jackets, or the lug would jump out of the crimper and not line up properly for a follow-on blow afterwards (splitting the lug).

In the pro-electrical trade, the idea is to work smart not hard, so when the cable is too big to process with simple hand tools they don't use hammer type crimpers as often as hydraulic or battery powered crimpers/cutters (like a power drill, only it compresses a die instead of spinning a drill-bit).

-T
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 11:49:16 AM by Tim Strommen » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2011, 01:22:25 PM »

If you can be a bit patient or shell out a few extra bucks, I'm sure one will become available again on e-place (like this one currently at $99).


I actually looked at that one, but it appears to only have a die for 6 AWG and not 8 AWG.  I think I would rather buy the Central Pneumatic one instead. 

I have plenty of time to look for a crimper as it will probably be May at earliest before I get around to this due to the spring thaw.  I have some time to look for a deal.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Tim Strommen
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« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2011, 02:45:52 PM »

Smiley  If you're looking at the auction picture, then yes you only see a 6AWG and 2/0 die - however, the dies rotate (you push in the black spring-loaded center pins and turn, then release the center-pins and the dies lock in place), there are dies for:

8-6-4-2-0-00-000-0000

Trust me, I own one of that model (and no, it's not my listing Wink)

I'll take a few pictures of mine tonight and post it in this thread.

-T
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 02:52:54 PM by Tim Strommen » Logged

Fremont, CA
1984 Gillig Phantom 40/102
DD 6V92TA (MUI, 275HP) - Allison HT740
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belfert
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« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2011, 05:50:12 PM »

I'm probably more interested in the Central Pneumatic hydraulic crimper at this point.  I liked the really expensive hydraulic my friend got on loan for my 4/0 cable but it won't go down to 8 AWG.  I have some time to keep looking for something.

I'm hoping my friend has a crimper he can get on loan so I don't have to buy one.

Daniel Stern just notified me my headlights won't ship late May as it turned out the headlight he thought is an H4 is really an H1.  Not a big deal and if he doesn't come through I can order from Talbotco.  I have other projects I can work on.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 05:52:51 PM by belfert » Logged

Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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