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Author Topic: Electric bus  (Read 7461 times)
TomC
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« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2011, 10:31:30 PM »

The bigger the engine, generator, heating plant, etc the more efficient it is.  The most efficient Diesel engine in the world is the big 2 stroke engines that power ships.  They have a 38" bore and 98" stroke (compared to 4.25 x 5.00 in a 71 series) and run as fast as 102 rpm.  Look up worlds largest Diesel engine for an explanation.

Mark my words-as we see fuel prices going up, we'll see more Diesel vehicles.  Virtually every American, Asian, European car manufacturer makes Diesels in their cars-mostly outside of the U.S.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2011, 03:12:14 AM »


Mark my words-as we see fuel prices going up, we'll see more Diesel vehicles.  Virtually every American, Asian, European car manufacturer makes Diesels in their cars-mostly outside of the U.S.  Good Luck, TomC

  Which will spike the price of diesel and possibly make gasoline less expensive, and then everyone will shift back to gasoline making diesel cheap again. People are more like Sheep than I ever would have imagined.
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Iceni John
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« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2011, 07:45:41 AM »

People are more like Sheep than I ever would have imagined.
Hey, what have you got against sheep?   No more anti-sheep insults, please.

John
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« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2011, 08:35:08 AM »

Except for cars and small trucks, the entire world runs on Diesel Fuel.  Trucks, buses, trains, big ships, etc.  Airplanes use highly refined (no water) kerosene-like half and half of gasoline and Diesel.  Diesel is more expensive then gasoline because of the ultra low sulfur-15 parts per million-think of it as the Diesel version of unleaded gasoline.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #49 on: April 02, 2011, 06:41:32 PM »

Here you go, Coconut:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170623136664&viewitem=

2004 Fully Electric Shuttle Bus 4500 miles only

These Shuttle Buses are Fully Electric ..
50Hp DC motor and controller.
Air ride compressor
Wheel Chair lift
seats 18 Passangers
with only 4500
they where bought for $135.000 in 2004
they added a 12000W Generator LPG Hona GX670 with two tanks for to extend  battery time .
bus  runs for six hours before recharging
max speed is 25-30 m/hr
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« Reply #50 on: April 02, 2011, 08:07:42 PM »

   There was a school near us when I was a teenager. The City blew some $30Million in 1975 dollars building a state of the art hot water solar heating system. I dont believe the system worked longer than 4 or 5 years and they shut it down, it was costing more to maintain it than the savings it offset against the gas heating system, and they had to keep the gas system because the solar wasnt a reliable source, so they had to feed and maintain two systems.

  Governments are increasingly spending our money on goofy research and purchases, and I dont often have a problem with it as long as it doesnt become really stupid or political. But some of the things they sponsor and support offer no real benefits other than simply wasting money. If battery powered electric vehicles offered any real savings, deleivery companies and businesses that needed to get people around would be all over it. Pizza delivery, technicians, mail trucks, why right there you would see it, why isnt the USPS running electric vehicles?

  Because it costs more to buy, has limited range, greatly deminished cargo capacity, massive electric bills and expensive maintenence.

  Only a well funded City would be stupid enough to pay $135K for an electric Bus that cant go over 25 mph and isnt worth $4500 6 years later. And only uneducated taxpayers would support it. What a waste.
     
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chev49
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« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2011, 07:33:52 AM »

but the electric busses are "green".... and  us tree huggers like "green" (and spending other people's money)
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« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2011, 09:00:46 AM »

but the electric busses are "green".... and  us tree huggers like "green" (and spending other people's money)

  All kidding aside, electric vehicles are the most UN-green vehicles we could ever put on the road. Even these hybrid cars, if the goal was truly to achieve superior fuel economy, the Prius would have a sub 1 liter turbo diesel and treehuggers would learn how to drive a manual gearbox. That car could likely exceed 80 mpg if economy was truly the goal those people claim they are after.
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CrabbyMilton
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« Reply #53 on: May 01, 2011, 10:26:19 AM »

Much of this hubalu about electric vehicles is based on emotional symbolism. As stated by others, there will come a day where we will have all electric vehicles that are as dependable and powerful with the same range as gasoline and diesel is now. We're not here yet and "good intentions are not going to help. You could put lawnmower engines a BOEING 747 and claim it will use less fuel all in the name of good intentions but the thing won't move let alone fly.
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« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2011, 12:24:35 PM »

As stated by others, there will come a day where we will have all electric vehicles that are as dependable and powerful with the same range as gasoline and diesel is now.

  I just dont see anything like that happening, only small increases in efficiency are likely into the far distant future, its the law of diminishing returns.

  And even so, you still have the issue of where the power will come from to charge all these electric cars, and the environmental impact of putting so many or so large of batteries into circulation. After whats happened in Japan, selling anyone on nuclear power is going to be a hard sell, and as we cant seem to explore our resources for Natural Gas any farther due to environmental impacts, and we cant rely on wind or solar enough to shut down or even slow down one single power plant, there will undoubtedly be construction of more coal plants to support them. Like it or not, plugging a million battery powered cars into the grid will overload the system, and there will be a greater environmental impact. And replacing all cars with electric would be impossible.

  Nearly 30 years ago an editor at R&T drove a 5 passenger Peugeot powered by a sub 1 liter turbo diesel and recorded over 80 mpg. Imagine where we would be today if research had continued in that direction. If people didnt have thier undies so wound up over oil and not wasted so much of our time and tax dollars on BS electric car technology, and instead had focused on making the internal combustion engine and our cars more efficient, we wouldnt be where we are today.

  I was looking at a Smart car, and was astonished the car would only got 45 mpg. My Mercedes 190 diesel did that well, seated 5, could roll at over 80 mph and had a useable trunk. And the 2.2 4 cyl diesel that preceded it would get almost 60 mpg! Were going backwards folks, not forward.
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Len Silva
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« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2011, 01:03:33 PM »

I agree with you there.  The old VW Rabbit Diesel got well north of 50 mpg.  I don't think the newer ones come close. A few years back, we looked at the Jeep Liberty Diesel and couldn't believe the lousy mileage it got.
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« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2011, 01:22:13 PM »

The problem with these quick fixes, like more refinerees and coal plants etc. is that this is not renuable energy. The same problems we face now, we would again face on another day. Maybe we would be more equipped to deal with it then, or maybe not. I still like the idea of solar panels in space beaming down our energy to use whenever we need, as much as we need....
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« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2011, 02:18:06 PM »

I am a member of SAE and have been for over 35 years. Each month I get the member magazine and I am blown away at the engine technology that is being developed (both gas and diesel).  As this technology is put into production, I think you will see some pretty great MPG numbers.

The OEMs are really fighting an uphill battle.  The emission requirements are ever increasing and that really eats away at the POTENTIAL fuel mileage that will be possible with the amazing technology that is in the development stage.

I, too, am  concerned about electric vehicles.  Again, the SAE magazine talks about some very good work being done, but you simply can't fight the laws of physics when it comes to energy storage.  Even the next generation of batteries do not have huge gains in power density.  There are applications for electric cars - such as commuting to work, but you are simply not going to drive to grandma's hose two states away in a pure electric car.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
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« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2011, 08:47:35 PM »

Each month I get the member magazine and I am blown away at the engine technology that is being developed (both gas and diesel). The OEMs are really fighting an uphill battle.  The emission requirements are ever increasing and that really eats away at the POTENTIAL fuel mileage that will be possible with the amazing technology that is in the development stage.

I, too, am  concerned about electric vehicles, but you simply can't fight the laws of physics when it comes to energy storage.  Even the next generation of batteries do not have huge gains in power density.  There are applications for electric cars - such as commuting to work, but you are simply not going to drive to grandma's hose two states away in a pure electric car.

Jim

  Good points, the EPA seems hell bent on making cars burn as much fuel as possible, either by directly screwing up engines, or chemically altering the fuel to make it lower BTU. Clean air is important, but there should be some balance with conservation and economy. I just never could understand how a car that got almost 60 mpg could be polluting so bad it needed to be modified until it only gets 25 mpg. Something is terribly wrong with that kind of thinking.

  I do argue however that even for commuting, an electric car wastes a great deal of energy that is primarily coal based. If people had a small commuter car with a 500cc turbo diesel that delivered 80-100 mpg, there would be less pollution than from electric cars, but with virtually unliited range. And if instead of charging batteries at home we processed hydrogen directly at the power plants, that could be used as another alternative fuel source.
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« Reply #59 on: May 06, 2011, 03:31:10 AM »

Just been reading about the use of micro gas turbines as the new way of producing electricity to power hybrid vehicles. The new Jaguar supercar is using them, and they offer many advantages over the hydrogen fuel cell approach - such as the fact that the gas turbine is not restricted to 'just' hydrogen, and can run on a whole range of fuels from CNG right through to diesel (as we know, aircraft engines run on fuel which is crude and cheap compared to what is required for a piston engine).

Anyway, give it another ten years of development and these things might be an ideal back-up power source for an electric bus after it's used it's batteries up.





Jeremy
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