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Author Topic: OK How many have changed there own wheel?  (Read 3322 times)
babell2
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« on: March 29, 2011, 12:41:47 PM »

I have a left front flat on my MCI-9.  I have been trying to break loose the lugs with little success until today.

 The big question is How many of you know the left side lugs on an MCI are LEFT HANDED THREAD?Huh !!!! Are the duals the same on the left?

The last time I ran accost this was a 1960 ish Chrysler and I broke the stud off then. I think I was ~16

Brice

P.S.  "BK" you don't count I know you have.
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« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2011, 12:45:55 PM »

Just about everybody knows stud pilot wheels on trucks or buses on the left side are left handed tells you that on the end of the stud

good luck
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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2011, 12:47:29 PM »

LOL! OK Brice, yes I have and yes MCI's and most SOB's (some other brands) are also this way on all the older buses with "budd" or "stud piloted" wheels.
Newer "hub piloted" wheels have all off them standard threads.
Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2011, 01:00:11 PM »

  In the "real" world, if a manufacture uses left hand threads on the left hand side, they  do so on ALL the axles.

  But not Oshkosh. No way! I struggled with the rear duals, broke two sockets and bent a breaker bar before I figured it out. I had just done the front and those are righties, gosh darnit was I mad.

  But I was warned. Stamped ever so lightly in the ends of the studs is a poor example of an "L". Poor example because both lines making up the "L" are equal length so it lools like a arrow. l_. Poor example because its so light you wouldnt notice it without getting your eyeball right up to it.
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babell2
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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2011, 01:01:33 PM »

Just about everybody knows stud pilot wheels on trucks or buses on the left side are left handed tells you that on the end of the stud

good luck

I guess I am now "just about everybody". This thing has a learning curve to it and I think I am just a little behind the curve.

Brice
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1980 MCI-9 "The Last Resort" Located just south of Atlanta GA.
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babell2
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« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2011, 01:04:51 PM »

  In the "real" world, if a manufacture uses left hand threads on the left hand side, they  do so on ALL the axles.

  But not Oshkosh. No way! I struggled with the rear duals, broke two sockets and bent a breaker bar before I figured it out. I had just done the front and those are righties, gosh darnit was I mad. 

I just hope that the torque multiplier I was using hasn't stretched the studs and made them un serviceable.

Brice
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1980 MCI-9 "The Last Resort" Located just south of Atlanta GA.
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Len Silva
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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2011, 01:11:12 PM »

Just about all of us know that, and just about all of us learned it the same damn way you did.
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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2011, 01:28:27 PM »


I just hope that the torque multiplier I was using hasn't stretched the studs and made them un serviceable.

Brice

  Once they snug up to the rim/wheel, and you go round snugging them all by hand, they shouldnt turn much further when you torque them, maybe 1/4 to 1/3 turn and you should be pretty tight. If they seem to turn farther before really getting tight, I would start questioning it. However, those studs are extremely strong, stronger than most the tools your using.

  I would recheck them at 10 miles, 20, 50, 75, 100, then every 100 till 500, then at 500 mile intervals. Or whatever makes sense to you. If they are trouble it will likely show up sooner than later. If you really question it, replace them. If they are loose each time where you can tighten them more than 1/4 turn, by the third time I would be hitting a truck and tire shop.
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« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2011, 01:37:30 PM »

Just wait till you guys get a MCI 12 prison bus that has 5 stud pilot and 5 hub pilot on the same wheel those are fun
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robertglines1
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« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2011, 02:04:54 PM »

More surprises to come!! Roll Eyes
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
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« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2011, 02:14:49 PM »

A little trick that has been used for years for checking loose nuts is spray the nuts and studs with water if loose the will show rust streaks in a short time

good luck
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2011, 03:10:42 PM »

I learned it once on a 1950 Studebaker. Second time I learned it on a 1957 Chrysler. That lesson was more expensive, so it finally stuck. I'm a slow learner...Cable
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« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2011, 03:26:53 PM »

be very careful if you fix yourself. There is a reason tire shops have cages.
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
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« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2011, 06:23:39 PM »

  be very careful if you fix yourself. There is a reason tire shops have cages.   

     Yeah, this is not a simple or easy subject.  I recently put 6 wheels/tires on my bus.  I had help from a good but small-statured mechanic.   We were in a comfortable shop on a concrete floor with good light and plenty of tools.  But I immediately became thoroughly convinced that doing that job on a on the side of a road on soft, muddy dirt in the rainy dark was NOT something I wanted to do.
     I did have a great advantage in that an experienced mechanic friend (who is familiar with those buses) had taken the wheels off before they went to the tire shop.  He knew that the left threads were there; he showed me the "R" and "L" on the nuts (not on the studs, but at least they were marked).  I cleaned the nuts, painted them with POR and separated them into two cut-off two-liter soda bottles.  So, the thread thing is a bullet that I dodged - it's nice to have that happen once in a while.
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2011, 06:27:56 PM »

Wait until you find a righty on the left side!! Probably a good idea to really check out the ends of the studs for that infamous L or R engraving. Consider yourself lucky. I've charged people money for that information!!!  Grin
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« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2011, 06:36:37 PM »

Cages are for the old widow makers and the split rims. Not much of an issue with the rims on our rigs except older stuff and schoolies. In fact you may have a hard time even getting most places to even work on that type of rim. I know someone that after repairing a tire on such a rim, beating the hell out of it while it was in the cage and leaving it sit for 1/2 an hour had the ring pop off as he was rolling it out of the cage. Unfortunately that was the last tire he fixed. Nasty stuff and best left to the pros.
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« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2011, 06:54:07 PM »

Hey Camperbrat you listening?  I know some one was going out to help and teach but don't learn this one by your self.

Brice
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1980 MCI-9 "The Last Resort" Located just south of Atlanta GA.
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robertglines1
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« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2011, 07:20:10 PM »

Scott is rite about cage but I have noticed at my local truck tire place they still use it. I ask and was told they had recent injury with tire popping off 1 piece bud wheel.  I know they air up to about 75 and let sit 10minutes before taking up to final pressure. Only takes 1 awe sh-t to hurt you bad. dealing with allot of energy at rest-best kept at rest. Maybe I'm cautious with no reason.I'm no pro.     Bob
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2011, 08:28:52 PM »

I couldn't even begin to count how many times i have had the wheels on and off during the last 5-6 years. Smiley   Each winter it seems like i have one or two projects where i need to take off some or all of the wheels. This winter it was only one wheel, but it was on and off 4-5 times during the course of the project. The reason for so many times?  The project was one that took about 4-5 days to figure out what i wanted to do and what would work to do it. The Yuma/Mexico/California  area here has a lot of earthquakes, so each day when i get thru, the last thing i do is put my wheels back on and finger tighten the nuts. Even though i have it jacked and blocked i do not want to run the risk of having the bus knocked off of the blocks by a quake. Grin
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« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2011, 08:47:50 PM »

for the enlightenment of the newer folks...

Tire cages are a regular and modern tool in a tire shop. In fact, depending on your jurisdiction's labour laws, failing to have and use one is endangering your workers. Google "Tire zipper failure", it isn't about the rims anymore...

As for left or right turning threads...

Why don't we just LOOK AT THEM?Huh pretty easy to determine where the tail of the threads comes out, turn the fastener accordingly. You only have to check your own coach the first time...

Hub pilot wheels are usually all right turning. Stud pilot wheels are one way on one side, the other way on the other... yes, I'm being evasive...

Sometimes, busnuts have discovered wrong turning studs on the wrong side of the vehicle...

Best you do some Google on "stud pilot wheels" and "hub pilot wheels" to learn lots more.

Removing wheels is a good thing to do regularly, (then they WILL come off when you need them to...) and makes doing all manner of maintenance a lot easier and faster than struggling under the coach.

Air over hydraulic jack, a good piece of pipe to use as an extension or an air gun to remove the fasteners, and ONLY re-install with proper torque, which does NOT involve the air gun.

An air gun is not how I would allow my wheel fasteners to be installed.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2011, 09:22:47 PM »

Quote
Hey Camperbrat you listening?  I know some one was going out to help and teach but don't learn this one by your self.

Brice

YUp! Im listening, it would be a real B if I died before getting this bus done  Tongue I'd like to drive it finished just once lol

The Yuma/Mexico/California  area here has a lot of earthquakes, so each day when i get thru, the last thing i do is put my wheels back on and finger tighten the nuts. Even though i have it jacked and blocked i do not want to run the risk of having the bus knocked off of the blocks by a quake. Grin

Good point  Shocked
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« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2011, 10:54:30 PM »

I do all ( so far ) of my own repairs on the bus.  It is why I have  a bus ( I was bored with my '68 Volvo which never breaks now that it is sorted).  So I take off wheels when I need to.  I don't find them that big or difficult, and thanks to this board I knew in advance that one side had lefty threads.
I will say this though, it is harder to safely jack up a bus than a car. Keep on bussin
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« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2011, 02:21:19 AM »

Im old... but to be honest, I thought 20 and 22.5 tires were hard to change until I had to change all 5' high foam filled gradall tires for a customer, not to mention those rubber tracks of like a 331 bobcat or even a large skid steer... Changing the tires on the wheel isn't too bad with the new wheels, but be careful with the split rims, and esp the antique widow makers...
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« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2011, 03:01:53 AM »

Since I do some racing I run into left hand threads on different things from time to time, inside gearboxes, on wheel nuts on center  lock wheels, on suspension arms.  I learned to look at the thread.  I honestly don't recall how I learned that the studs on the drivers side were lefties, but I did the first time I pulled the wheels off my bus to inspect the brakes (I do that twice a season).  The first time was a serious PITA since I went through the learning curve of how to undo over tightened wheel nuts (neighbour's SnapOn 1" air gun and turn the compressor up to 140 lbs).  I broke my new torque multiplier and my new 4' bar.

So yeah, I take my wheels off on my own all the time.

Brian
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« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2011, 04:15:26 AM »

The split wheel was a 2 piece wheel that locked in the center has not been made since the 60's the outside lock ring type wheels people call split wheels are still made and in use today they are pretty safe like every thing made most of the danger comes from human error.
Fwiw my dad owned a large trucking co in Houston all his trucks had the lock ring he had the same tire guy for 30 years I never saw one blow off the wheel if the lock ring showed wear he changed to a new one I remember my dad would complain that the rings cost 4 dollars lol.
With the dropped center tubeless tire wheels the tire can be removed without taking the wheel off lot of tire shops repair that way it looks to me if comes off that easy it could blow off while airing up but the tire guys don't seem to worry about it I keep my distance lol

good luck
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 10:18:50 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2011, 06:26:29 AM »

At a small tire shop just a few miles out of our town, a 23-year-old young man was killed last year. He was airing up a truck tire. It was NOT a lock-rim. The tire blew off the wheel and took his life. He was the only financial support for his widowed mother and five younger syblings.

As in everything, we need to keep our brains engaged when doing tire work.
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Bussman84
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« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2011, 02:49:15 PM »

Just remember you hardly ever hear a horror story about the guy (or girl) that was too overly cautious... These are big machines with big parts. I'm all about doing things yourself but please be sure to put safety first.

Billy
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« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2011, 03:02:06 PM »

f

Air over hydraulic jack, a good piece of pipe to use as an extension or an air gun to remove the fasteners, and ONLY re-install with proper torque, which does NOT involve the air gun.

An air gun is not how I would allow my wheel fasteners to be installed.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

Where were you with this enlightenment when i let Goodyear put 6 new tires on?  Thank God i have coachnet.
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« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2011, 05:25:33 PM »

Thank You! Thank You! THANK YOU!!! I think a 1957 Chrysler was the last vehicle that I fooled with that had left hand lugs and I would't have thought about it with the bus.  At least now I have been told, whether I remember it will be the question.
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« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2011, 06:23:13 PM »

Yup, when we have a tire shop work do something to the tires, I always watch.

Some places will let me run the lug nuts on myself (seriously, not many will let me, but some do). I simply run them on until they get a little bit snug.

Then I take a torque wrench to them. We carry our own.

However, if I can't do it myself, when we are at a shop, then I watch. Sometimes I have to stand just outside of the shop door (per insurance regs). But I tell them, that I really don't want a 1" used on the bus. If so, I tell them that they can't hammer it on at all. Just a little bit snug, and torque wrench from there. So far, I have had a couple of guys get a little grumpy. However, I WILL NOT let them hammer those lugnuts down with their guns. Simply, no way.

Also, while we are on the topic, be careful when you are having another shop lube your bus. We were at WW Williams in Tucson, a year ago. All we needed was the oil changed, but they did us a "favour" and lubed it too. As soon as I found that out, I asked the gent to stop, and spoke with the shop manager. I hadn't authorized the to do that for a reason. I crawled under there myself, and sure enough, there was grease globed off of every part of the brakes. It was a MESS. Grease was on the drums and everything. They told me not to worry about it, but I simply stated that I wasn't moving the bus until the problem was solved. I said all I needed was some brake cleaner and rags, and I would do it myself. They finally said to pull into the wash bay, and a VERY helpful young man, cleaned things up. He told us that whenever the other gent did anything, he had to clean up after him.

Moral of that story? Take what you want. I don't let anybody else lube our bus. And yes, WW Williams made it right.

God bless,

John
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« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2011, 07:07:50 PM »

Since I had to replace all my 4104 rear studs on one side I no longer will let any tire shop do the tightening, every thread was stripped, I couldn't properly torque a one of them after I removed the inside wheel.

My front R and L hubs are reversed. I've driven it 70,000 mi that way because I'm too lazy to change them unless some other work needs to be done.

Not one problem so far, amazing!!

My '67 Barracuda had so many tire shop stripped/broken studs that I finally changed them all to RH with no problems thereafter. It is amazing how many people are completely unable to grasp the theory of left hand threads.
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