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Author Topic: hub meter hours  (Read 3331 times)
MCI-RICK
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« on: April 02, 2011, 04:37:40 AM »

How many hours on a hub meter mean it's time for a rebuild? The bus is a 1986 TMC 102A3 with a 6V92TA and the hub meter shows 13,816 hours. Huh
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jhaggerty
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« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2011, 04:46:47 AM »

Rick,

I'm pretty sure all hub meters read miles or kilometers, not hours. I could be wrong.

Jim
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MCI-RICK
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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2011, 05:55:41 AM »

I thought so. I've asked the seller for clarification on the post.
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trucktramp
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2011, 06:21:10 AM »

Hub meters measure distance traveled via revolutions of the axle that it is mounted on.
Hobbs meters measure time.  They used to be seen on some aircraft and farm implements.
Hope this helps.
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Dennis Watson
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2011, 08:50:47 AM »

HUB meters are usually installed due to some type of overhaul, but could be for a myriad of reasons.  Without some type of documentation showing why that particular meter was installed it's kind of useless.  Could have been a minor in-frame, could have been a full replacement. Your guess as good as any.
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2011, 01:44:06 PM »

Thomas, some buses, like mine, have hubometers because there is no odometer.
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2011, 02:04:35 PM »

Hub meters don't mean much they need to match the rpm of the tire to be accurate and guys changing tire sizes throws it all out of whack some have dip switches to set the rpm and some don't


good luck
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 02:07:07 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2011, 03:16:53 PM »

A mechanic told me that they have a box of them in the back and when they would do overhauls etc. they would put on a new one and throw the old one in a box. They would give them away to whom ever might need one no matter what the number were. Most of them ended up with someone selling a Bus or truck that looked like it had lower miles on them. He also stated that they can be changed pretty fast. FWIW
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« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2011, 03:23:09 PM »

If it's measuring hours, I think Dennis had it right --- it's a Hobbs Meter, not a hubodometer.  We have a Hobbs meter on the auxiliary generator of our 4107.  

However, back to the original question, does a Hobbs meter, or Hubodometer, indicate that a rebuild is imminent?  I think not, for two reasons.  As mentioned, we don't know whether work has been done, without the meter being reset -- thus, it could be the total hours on the engine, regardless of whether it's had a minor.  Second, time or mileage alone don't necessarily indicate a rebuild.  Was the coach maintained well -- longer life.   Was the oil never changed (after all, Detroits drain their own, so we only have to add make-up oil) - then it may already be overdue.  

If we use an average of 50 MPH (don't know the type of service over the coach's life, local/highway ratio, so 50 may be a good guess) - AND if it's the original engine -- AND if nothing's been done on it, then we could estimate that something has about 700,000 miles (690,800).  Is it the bus?  Is it the engine?  Sounds like we'd have to guess.    

So, let's add to the question -- what would an oil analysis tell about the state of the engine, and whether it's time to start the piggy bank for a rebuld?  What other diagnostics would answer the question, as to the probable health/longevity of the engine?  Also, is the consideration whether to budget for a rebuild, actually do a pre-emptive rebuild as preventative maintenance based of failure predictability, or is this a prospective coach purchase - and a price/value question?

As much as I appreciate the airlines doing rebuilds based on predictability of future failures, I wouldn't take that approach with a personal land vehicle (fleets, yes, my own cars/bus, no).    

Arthur
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Arthur Gaudet    Carrollton (Dallas area) Texas 
1968 PD-4107

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MCI-RICK
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« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2011, 03:41:32 PM »

The seller said it's an hour meter. I asked where is it located and I'm still waiting for a response
As usual, lots of good info hear Smiley
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MCI-RICK
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« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2011, 03:57:59 PM »

Ok,  I finally got it straight.

It's a dash mounted engine hour meter. Sorry bout that Huh

The hour meter shows 13,816.

What does that translate to in miles?

Is that too many hours?  Huh
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« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2011, 03:58:12 PM »

Rick, it'd also be helpful to know the history of the bus - original fleet owner, subsequent owners, whether it's ever been run by a church, etc.  I've never seen an hour meter in a coach (mostly firetrucks, as I understand), so it would be interesting to find out who would put one in.  Disclaimer, it's been over 35 years since I did much with coaches -- I've specialized in transit since the mid/late 70's.  Interesting aside, transit uses hubodometers/mileage for PM's, although hours might be just as good.  

Edit - I just saw your additional post.  If you know much about the original/subsequent uses of the bus, multiply the hours by a reasonable MPH assumption.  In my earlier post, I suggested 50 MPH, giving you about 700,000 miles on something -- but, again, we don't know if an in-frame was done, if other work has been done, or if it's even the original engine.  It could even be that there was a replacement/overhaul, and the Hobbs meter wasn't reset -- again, because most bus work is done based on mileage, not hours.

Arthur
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 04:00:55 PM by Runcutter » Logged

Arthur Gaudet    Carrollton (Dallas area) Texas 
1968 PD-4107

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« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2011, 06:21:02 PM »

Rick,
On my bus, which is a professional conversion, the hour meter on the eyebrow panel is for the diesel powered generator, and not the bus engine.
Dennis 
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« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2011, 07:20:52 PM »

The bus has been church owned for quite a few years.

They bought a new bus to replace the older one.

No problems with it but it is an older bus and they don't want to experience breakdown on one of their interstate trips.
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« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2011, 07:35:22 PM »

   The hour meter only indicates the number of hours the current to the meter has been engaged. Youll have to determine what it indicates, engine or generator. Without paperwork that says when it was installed, thats all that it means. If the engine or Gen had reciepts saying such and such was done at such and such hours, you would have something to go by, provided the meter has been operational the entire time.
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MCI-RICK
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« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2011, 07:57:03 PM »

Guess it's time to make the 4 hour drive to see/check it out.

Gonna make a list of things to check.
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« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2011, 09:52:48 PM »

I don't think I'd put much weight on what an hour meter says.  You don't know how accurate those numbers are.  Is it for a genny or the engine hours?  If it is the engine, how much of the time is idle vs drive time.  Many times the meter runs as soon as the "key" switch is thrown.  I would be more concerned with how much smoke I saw on a cold start up.
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Dennis Watson
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« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2011, 12:30:40 PM »

Hubodometers could just as well be called lieometers.  Larger bus operators will often change them when the engine is replaced or inframed.  They also could have been replaced because they quit working or whatever.  They are generally used for the current owner's own records and have no relation to the actual mileage.  A dishonest seller will put on a hubodometer with low miles to claim the bus has lower miles than actual.

There are supposedly laws to outlaw attempts to tamper with odometer settings, but it is far too easy to replace an speedometer/odometer in buses that don't have integrated electronic dashes.  My speedo didn't work when I bought my bus and they replaced it with a random used unit.  The mileage had nothing to do with the actual miles on the bus.

A DDEC or other ECM can be a good indicator in relation to miles, but mine had either been replaced or the mileage lost somehow.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2011, 01:09:46 PM by belfert » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2011, 12:41:51 PM »

Rick, when you say it's a four-hour drive, I wonder if someone else on the board may be in the vicinity of the bus already.  Perhaps someone can take a look for you, and at least do a screening - to see if it's worth your time/effort to travel that distance.

I'd suggest -- if you want to - post a (rough) location of the bus, and see if anyone's nearby.  The northeast is full of busfans, as well as bus professionals (many of whom are also fans). 

Arthur
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Arthur Gaudet    Carrollton (Dallas area) Texas 
1968 PD-4107

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« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2011, 01:20:29 PM »

Ok.

The bus is located on Beach Blvd. Jacksonville, Florida.

 If anyone is nearby and can take a look at it
 that would be greatly appreciated   Cool

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« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2011, 05:34:03 PM »

It seems to me that if you start up the bus engine and the meter starts "clicking", then it's monitoring that engine. If that happens when you start the genny, then it's monitoring the generator power plant. Like others have said, I wouldn't put too much stock in what is indicated on that meter, rather in how much smoking I see, how well it clears up, and how the engines sound. An experienced bus owners opinion is your best asset. Good luck.
Dennis
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