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Author Topic: Updated....how to get out of a minor sinkhole....  (Read 6968 times)
opus
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« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2011, 11:16:05 AM »

Busses dont lift well.  You can really do damage.  I remember we had to be trained on how to lift and tow them properly.  

When winching, you always pull opposite the direction you drove in, unless there is a specific reason not to.  That is probably why it was more difficult than need be for them, if they pulled from the front.

Glad you got out in one piece....literally!

[edit]  Mind you, about the lifting part.  Wheel lifts were just starting to come into production when I was doing this.  Obviously, with a wheel lift, there isnt much to know about lifting them.  We had just 30 ton twin boom wreckers.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 11:18:58 AM by opus » Logged

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pipopak
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« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2011, 11:35:36 AM »

OK, by now is fairly evident that I don't know a lot about this matter, but I want to learn. I figure that lifting from the ends of the chassis is probably not good, what I meant about the hooks was to use them as towing points, attached to the chassis. From the pics I see John has nothing. About the tractor, what they did scared me with the fat chances of hitting something under the bus with the tongues. Please LMK if I am wrong again. Also, what is the right way to LIFT a bus from above?.
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John316
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« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2011, 12:08:42 PM »

Opus, you are right. They don't lift well. However, we were lifting on the manufactured skids, that are underneath. That was a place that we could lift, according to what I have learned, and from what MCI tech support said. We started off trying to lift the body, which lifted the axle. MCI tech support said that lifting up wouldn't damage anything. I was concerned about the airbags. However, they said that the shocks will keep the airbags from ripping. The skids are heavy duty skids, that came from the factory. They are on there to keep the body from scraping, when there is low ground clearance. So we were lifting on a good point.

I was originally thinking that it would have to be lifted out with a boom wrecker. However, we couldn't get underneath where we needed to. There are dedicated lift points for the body. We have them right behind the front axle, and in front and behind of the rear axles.

Pipopak, you are right, lifting on the outers isn't grand. However, the front, where we were, was a good spot. You really don't want to lift on the back, though, because that is a fairly weak part. MCI said that we should sling from the just behind the rear axles. There are some heavy duty lift points there.

We have two tow hooks on the front. They are at the same place that the skids are. They were made for towing. They don't look like they are strong enough, but they are.

When we were using the loader, we were VERY careful how far we put those forks under. We didn't put them even too the axle. where we were home free.

I hope that helps. Let me know if there is anything else I can help answer.
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buswarrior
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« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2011, 03:34:13 PM »

All the roads wherever there is frost are on the half weight laws this time of year.

5 tons per axle is the usual sign you will see posted.

Best not start thinking about blame.

This is a dramatic example of why the frost coming out can cause big trouble.

In a couple weeks, it would be as hard as concrete...

happy coaching!
buswarrior

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opus
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« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2011, 03:40:46 PM »

300# per sq inch are what our roads are during breakup.
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John316
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« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2011, 06:11:08 PM »

BW, that is understandable to have the weight limits. However, there were NO posted weight restrictions. That was our saving grace. We weren't cited for anything.

Opus, that would make sense. But there weren't any signs posted. If there would have been signs, we wouldn't have even been on the road in the first place. We obey posted signs, and any other laws that we know of.
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Stormcloud
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« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2011, 06:47:41 PM »

Sure glad you made it out of that mess OK, John. I don't envy you one tiny bit having to deal with that.

Hope the rest of your trip goes well!

Mark
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Mark Morgan    near Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
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« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2011, 11:29:35 PM »

Not enough signs to go around.

The only roads unaffected by the frost coming out are ones built with considerable aggregate bases, similar to the highway/interstate construction techniques, where there is no water in the road bed.

Everything else will tear up or sink in as the frozen moisture unfreezes and tries to drain away through the rest of the deeper frozen moisture.

My driveway at the recreational property is the consistency of wet cement right now, over a deeper layer of frozen hard. Shortly, once the wet can percolate away, it will be a gravel driveway, you'd never know.

Bad time to be wandering around with a heavy vehicle in frost effected areas.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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John316
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« Reply #53 on: April 10, 2011, 08:43:22 AM »

BW, you are right. They must not have wanted to invest in the signs. When one is from farther south, we don't know about that. We even went way farther north, then where this happened. Nobody ever mentioned it, and people just said to stay on pavement. We did, and we got stuck. The people in town said that they had never heard of this, nor seen anything like that before.

I am including a pic of the wrecker. That was when he was thinking that he would lift the front and back, then put blocks under it. That didn't work....
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #54 on: April 10, 2011, 08:49:59 AM »

John, sure glad that you guys got out OK.

As this thread progressed, I kept thinking about our Eagle.  I have no idea what a person could grab onto to safely extract the bus.  I talked to Dan Lenz a bit when we last had our Eagle towed.  Dan worked at Eagle and knows Eagles inside out.  

He said you can grab onto the Torsilastic tubes in front.  They used to put huge tow straps around both tubes and put a big piece of wood under the bumper and hook on to the wrecker hook.  He said that worked OK, but that they lost several windshields on the new buses since the frame in the front flexed and torqued the glass.  With the bus sitting on the ground, I am not sure how you would get to the tubes.

I have large hydraulic cylinders that I could use to lift the bus, but the ground would probably not support the rams.

I hope I don't have to find out.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
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John316
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« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2011, 10:01:46 AM »

Okay, folks. Here are the final pictures.

The bus pulls to the right, a little, but nothing major. hopefully an alignment will take care of that. Other then body damage, windshield, door being racked, and a few other minor things, we escaped with little damage. We are blessed.

If we can't find another good shop, en route, we will probably swing down to Sam Caylor, to have him inspect the frame (if he agrees).

Jim, I have no idea how one would pull out an Eagle, in our situation. We were VERY blessed to have the tow hooks on the front. I was amazed that they were strong enough.

God bless,

John
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2011, 10:11:19 AM »

What a nightmare John!!! I hope I never have to deal with something like that.
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robertglines1
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« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2011, 03:09:24 PM »

I noticed the asphalt was extremely thin. It might be wise to avoid the frost thawing time.  Does it last long? what do locals do? semi etc? Should I avoid these areas for certain times of the year? or is this a isolated problem? how did tow truck get there without falling thru?  curious Bob
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opus
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« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2011, 04:59:01 PM »

I misstated our road restrictions.  They are 300# per inch of width of tire.
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robertglines1
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« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2011, 05:14:45 PM »

so your saying a 315 tire would be around 3800lb per tire. or only about 7600 lbs on front axle.
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
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