Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
November 26, 2014, 09:26:47 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an Online Subscription: It will not get torn up or crushed if you back over it with your bus.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Leave shore line plugged in or not?  (Read 3951 times)
Sean
Geek.
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2553


'85 Neoplan Spaceliner "Odyssey"


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2011, 08:54:57 PM »

Sean, thanks for the link.  Yes, that is the thread I had recalled.  Did not recall quite that negative of a review Shocked


Wow, and I thought I was pretty positive about it, all things considered.  My only real reservation, IIRC, was the haphazard way the MOV board was mounted, and, of course, the price.

Quote
Any thoughts on a better product?


Frankly, I have not really studied the market, as I am not shopping for one myself.  But I am happy to review anything you find.  The review on the Progressive was the result of a rare opportunity to take one apart without having to purchase it first.  The shop basically said "we're thinking of carrying these; take a look at them and tell us what you think."

Quote
I  am perhaps half way up the ladder from the "non-electrically inclined", but I am not convinced that being knowledgeable about the issues is sufficient protection.  I am really careful to check every place I plug in for voltage and proper wiring (both legs).  What I worry about is some transient problem, or lightening.


Well, lightning is a valid concern, but the real protection from lightning comes from the MOVs.  You can easily buy a half dozen $6 plug strips with MOVs in them to protect all your assets and be dollars ahead, especially if you have a strike and have to replace them.  Surge suppressors can be replaced at any Wal-Mart.  The microcontroller board can't react quickly enough to protect against lightning, or other rapid high transients.

That leaves the bulk of the device protecting you from under/over voltage, which sometimes can be a transient problem, and more fundamental problems like an open neutral.  These more fundamental problems are seldom transient -- the neutral seldom becomes open while you are using the pedestal -- and are easily guarded against by fully testing the pedestal with an inexpensive voltmeter before connecting.

The gradual voltage transients, such as park voltage dropping when lots of rigs turn on their air conditioners, can often be covered by running the critical loads through your inverter, which probably has basic over/under volt protection built in (and was one of the themes of that thread).

So what I meant was that for the average Joe, who is not going to bother to meter every pedestal, put surge suppressors on all his electronics, and run his critical loads through a high-quality inverter, the big bucks for this device might be money well spent.  For many, though, almost all of the same protection can be had for $4 for the meter, $36 for plug strips, and a couple minutes of time at every pedestal, assuming you already have a good inverter for other reasons.

Hope that clears things up.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Logged

Full-timing in a 1985 Neoplan Spaceliner since 2004.
Our blog: http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
FloridaCliff
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2458


"The Mighty GMC"




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2011, 03:21:55 AM »

We had to make a quick trip to Florida... (in the car... Sad Sad Sad Sad)

Before leaving, I figured I would unplug the shore line since the bus would be unattended for 4 days.  Was this a needless, paranoid precaution?  Or is there anything that could indeed cause a problem if left plugged in and unattended?

(By the way, it killed me not to take the bus, but we just couldn't justify the $700 in fuel for a quick 3 or 4 day trip when we are staying with friends anyway...)

Yes, Probably, well maybe...... Huh

I leave our coach plugged in all the time we are home.  Even in lightning storms and the such.(I don't unplug my house either)

But, I do turn off the house water heater power and turn off the water supply when I am gone for say a week or so. My little paranoia thing.

You can make yourself crazy with worrying about all the MAYBE's in life, or you can relax,  enjoy yourself and carry good insurance....I choose the later.

Cliff

Logged

1975 GMC  P8M4905A-1160    North Central Florida

"There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded."
Mark Twain
thejumpsuitman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 755


'79/'97 Eagle 05


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2011, 06:31:01 AM »

I unplugged for fear of the unknown...  Since we have not had the coach long, I don't know if everything is surge protected or not.  Actually, I do know that the convection oven has it's own surge protector plug filter thingy that says on it that if the light is out, it is bad...  Well the light is out, so I guess it's bad. 

I would imagine that the more you understand, the more concerned you can get about what could go wrong.  On the other hand, ignorance is bliss (until something bad happens)  Grin
Logged

"Life is like a game of Pool... No matter how bad it looks, you take your shot."
rv_safetyman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2199


Jim Shepherd


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2011, 06:35:11 AM »

I apologize that this thread is drifting a bit and it becoming pretty techie.  In this lengthy post, I am going to try to summarize my understanding of the issues from a layman's (idiot's?) point.  My hope is that the experts will correct any misconception.

I think we all need to be aware of the power issues that can really cost us a ton of money.   I have heard a ton of horror stories about fried devices and I want to take **REASONABLE** measures to protect myself.

My understanding of the issues when plugged in are 1) quality of power available (proper wiring and sufficient capacity on the line to support the needs of the bus) and 2)  protection from huge transient power spikes (mostly lightening).

For item 1)  we can all do testing at the point where we plug in to make sure the supply  is properly wired and that the voltage at that point is sufficient.  

Sean and others have said that if you are using a top-of-the-line inverter, and **IF** your sensitive electrical components are powered by the inverter, you have the ability to set voltage limits outside of which the system shuts off the flow of power and or makes up the power to get the voltage in the proper range.  ***NOTE*** that is my understanding - if that is not correct, it needs to be clarified.

The OP asked about leaving the bus plugged in at home.  Here, the owner should know about the quality of power.  The tread has expanded to discuss quality of power in RV parks (sometimes very suspect) or other sources of power (friends house?).

As a side note, I have a panel in the bus that has voltmeters and ammeters for each leg, plus the output of the inverter.  If there is any doubt that the voltage is not correct, I can quickly check the gauges.

For item 2) (lightening strikes), most of us do not have protection.  The inverter will not protect you.  It has been suggested that each sensitive device be plugged into a "real" surge protector (special version of a power strip).  If you look around, that  can be a ton of protectors for all the stuff we tend to drag along with us.  If you take that approach, you need to read the surge rating (in Joules).  Even with the published rating, I am not smart enough to know what is sufficient protection.

The other approach is to put some sort of surge protection at the entrance of the coach.  Sean talks about installing a few MOV elements in the line.  I did a bit of research and and could not find anything simple that could be installed (probably did not know what to look for).  The other issue seems to be that MOV elements degenerate over time as they do their job and need to be monitored.  It appears that if they go bad that they will still transmit power but without protection (I hope I my understanding of that phenomenon is not correct Shocked) - I hate systems that don't tell you that they no longer protect you Angry)

About the only off-the-shelf device that I found is, again, made by Progressive (no, I am not a shill):

http://www.progressiveindustries.net/ssp_50.htm

That device seems to sell for less than $150.  

That combined with careful checking and monitoring of supply power, seems like reasonable protection.  

Hope the experts offer some more insight.

Jim
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 06:46:31 AM by rv_safetyman » Logged

Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
Van
Billy Van Hagen
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2378


89' Silver Eagle 15/40 6V92MUI Boulder City,NV




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2011, 07:00:03 AM »

 Not! Marc, I think you made the right choice, til you have your systems figured out.  Wink
Logged

If you are not living on the edge, then you're takin' up too much space!!!
rv_safetyman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2199


Jim Shepherd


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2011, 07:14:54 AM »

{{offensive remarks removed by me}}

Van, you are correct that Marc made a good decision, given the situation.

The problem is that most of us have to plug into the grid at some point in time.  Some of us want to learn how to take reasonable measures to avoid damage to our coach.

Jim
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 11:31:08 AM by rv_safetyman » Logged

Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
JackConrad
Orange Blossom Special II
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4447


73' MC-8 8V71/HT740 Southwest Florida


WWW
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2011, 07:22:08 AM »

I think the first question should be what do you want to keep powered?  Battery charger, refrigerator?  If you have nothing in nthe refrigerator and nothing that will draw down the batteries, why is it neccessary to keep it plugged in?  In our case we keep the refrigerator pretty well stocked, even when home (makes a nice second refrigerator for extra stuff). We also have several small 12 volt loads that are always on.  Jack
Logged

Growing Older Is Mandatory, Growing Up Is Optional
Arcadia, Florida, When we are home
http://s682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/OBS-JC/
blank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1929




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2011, 07:41:57 AM »

  It is impossible to fully protect from Lightning. That said, a car, truck or Bus probably offers the greatest protection as long as its not plugged in to anything.

  When you see lightning blow a hole in the ground over 2 feet deep to get through non conductive PVC electrical conduit, blow it apart making a hole almost 3 feet in diameter with the melted ends sticking up in the air, and wipe out every electrical device in your home, youll realise there isnt much you can do other than completely disconnect all wiring from any source connected to ground or power. Dont even think about surge protectors stopping a lightning strike.

  You have to be completely isolated. Even that is no guarantee if your struck directly. I saw a Ford Truck that was struck while the couple were driving. It went through the hood and set the engine on fire. But they were safe and unharmed.

  Take a look around at all your electronics, and imagine that all of it just got wiped out. Everything. Now imagine trying to deal with the insurance company trying to replace it all. I was blown away to see the bill for damages exceed $10K and realise I had to do all the leg work and alot of the instalations myself, put the Sat Dish back together myself, etc.. I wouldnt want to think what the insurance would have said about a vehicle. An old Bus? They might just want to total it. If its plugged into to line power, you could easily lose your Genny, invertor, alternator, and every solid state peice of electronics you have onboard, and potentially start a fire.

  To me, the RV, and now a Bus, is a mobile Cabin. Before we left the Cabin, we emptied the fridge and shut everything down, unplugged everything, etc.. I cant see treating the Bus any differently. To many things can fail. And when your not around to catch them, they have the potential to evolve into complete and utter destruction.
  
Logged
Van
Billy Van Hagen
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2378


89' Silver Eagle 15/40 6V92MUI Boulder City,NV




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2011, 09:29:32 AM »

Quote
Not! Marc, I think you made the right choice, til you have your systems figured out.  Wink


Van, I am not sure how to interpret your post.  I suspect that you are in the group that have labeled me a "blathering know it all".

Jim


 Huh Huh Now what'd I do? I just checked again, and no where is my answer to the OP directed at you Jim. No I don't belong to any group, and further more...nor do not appreciate being singled out and accused for no apparent reason. So knock it off already!!! Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry
Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry . Moderators.... do your duty please, if you would be so kind Wink Thank you!



  Sorry for the drift, but he had it coming! Grin
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 09:35:30 AM by van » Logged

If you are not living on the edge, then you're takin' up too much space!!!
rv_safetyman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2199


Jim Shepherd


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2011, 11:25:05 AM »

Van, I guess I owe you an apology. 

Your post with the word "Not" seemed to me to be a response to my post.  As I said in my note, I did not know how to interpret that one word sentence.

Then I made it worse by making the assumption that your reply was some sort of comment about my posting in general. 

Apparently that was not the case and, again, I apologize.  I have removed the comments that offended you.

I have some pretty serious things going on in my life right now and that is reflected in some less than stellar posts.

Jim
Logged

Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
boxcarOkie
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1452





Ignore
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2011, 11:31:28 AM »

Quote
Not! Marc, I think you made the right choice, til you have your systems figured out.  Wink


Van, I am not sure how to interpret your post.  I suspect that you are in the group that have labeled me a "blathering know it all".

Jim


 Huh Huh Now what'd I do? I just checked again, and no where is my answer to the OP directed at you Jim. No I don't belong to any group, and further more...nor do not appreciate being singled out and accused for no apparent reason. So knock it off already!!! Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry
Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry . Moderators.... do your duty please, if you would be so kind Wink Thank you!



  Sorry for the drift, but he had it coming! Grin


And there are those who wonder why it is that we want a rally site where alcohol is allowed?

(After reading all of this _____ I think I need a drink)  Just leave the thing plugged in, you don't have to dissect it, if you are uncomfortable with it, then just unplug the thing like Marc did.

Man-Man .....

BCO
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 03:31:17 PM by boxcarOkie » Logged

Chopper Scott
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1301


MCI 7




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2011, 06:32:54 PM »

Maybe we should all quit living because it only leads to death!! Wink
Logged

Seven Heaven.... I pray a lot every time I head down the road!!
Bad decisions make good stories.
JohnEd
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4571




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2011, 09:28:17 PM »

Van,


Yours was a good and clever post.  i didn't associate it with Jim's post.  Your cool....as always.

I can appreciate where Jim might have misread things.  I do that at least weekly if not daily.  Kudos to you Jim for the "apology".  Its nice to see that sort of thing.

Now lets all tippy toe out so as to not disturb BCO. Grin Tongue   Or?

Thank you,

John

Logged

"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
boxcarOkie
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1452





Ignore
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2011, 02:21:25 AM »

Maybe we should all quit living because it only leads to death!! Wink


Poor Marc, all he wanted was one "simple" answer.  Give him a break.  It would seem he has his fair share of grief here lately, why compound it even more?  I have to agree with Chopper Scott ... Perhaps it is time to throw in the towel and move on. Or maybe start a new technical string .... "What kind of toilet paper should I use in my bus" ... we surely can find some experts on that.

So, for me, this month, it is all about getting back to basics.

[1]  If the comment or material is just plain stoooopid, or borderline-aggressive in nature, I am just going to ignore it completely.
[2]  I will now do my level best in the future to “sit on it for at least 24 hours” before responding to something I consider personally offensive to my good nature.
[3]  As someone so astutely pointed out, it is a good idea to just take it off line and send an email.  This seems to be the most prudent action to take.  (Caution:  If the header reads YOU SUCK don’t open it, it is only going to hack you off)

Like they say ... Where there is no wood ... There is no fire.*

BCO
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 09:32:29 AM by boxcarOkie » Logged

David Anderson
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 844


South Texas in the Eagle Ford Shale area




Ignore
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2011, 07:46:52 AM »

Mine has been plugged in for 9 years.  So far so good. However, it is unplugged for a week right now in Missouri as we are on a bike trip on the Katy bike trail.  It has never been uplugged and powered down that long.  I hope everything works when I power it all back up on Friday.

David
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!