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Author Topic: Waste Motor Oil for fuel.  (Read 15835 times)
JohnEd
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« on: May 12, 2011, 03:28:21 PM »

I am not an advocate of anything other than the principle of the thing.  I keep hearing about this and I would like to put it to bed once and for all.  I refuse to believe that it absolutely cannot be done.  Economically or safely or? may make it out of the question from a economical perspective but thats a long from "can't happen".

Maybe more of us have info even if it is anecdotal.  I am all ears and my mind isn't closed to info in any direction.  I understand WALS reservations...truly, I do.  But in the perspective that he has all the WVO oil he needs and can make BioD or properly treat WVO, he isn't a good fit for the guy to be looking into the merits of WMO.  And that is completely ignoring that he s very very busy with work and other pressing issues.  I have sympathy and will disrupt his routine as soon as I can visit.

I would want to see those engines and maybe one torn down.  Meeting these guys face to face would be nice.  Anybody here up to that?
Thanks,

John

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I make my own diesel fuel for 52 cents a gallon.  I make it from used motor oil, a tiny bit of gasoline, and I filter the heck out of it. I make it at the rate of 2 gallons a minute, and the work involved is minimal.   I've been driving it for about 40,000 miles, and about 10 guys locally are running it, and 20 or so across the country are happily running it.


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Paso One
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2011, 04:08:06 PM »

Hi John
I too have been a member of the  wastewatts group for years. However I process my waste motor oil for the purpose of heating the shop. ( 5000 sq ft )

I mix the various oils and gasoline to change the viscosity of the oil as I heat the shop in -40 degree weather.  

It really depends on where you live ( temperature wise IMHO)  

I produce some pretty nice diesel fuel not sure if I would ever run it in the bus tho.

A new website regarding waste oil burners is at  wmoburners.com a spin off of a yahoo group wasteoilburners

Moderator Edit:  As per Paso One's request, I have disabled the link.  He indicated that the site was hacked.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 08:59:41 PM by HighTechRedneck » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2011, 04:51:40 PM »

The question is??  Do you have the money to rebuild the topend of your Detroit engine if it soots or scores the cylinders.   I asked this very same question months ago > however it was with regards to using it in the Genset or Webasto.   The wisdom was that the metal fines would wear out the fuel injection pump.   

I'll just keep on burning it in my shop heater.
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belfert
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2011, 05:11:07 PM »

The bus garage I just used to replace my windshield burns waste motor oil to help heat their shop.  I saw what I thought was a fuel oil tank and was wondering why they would burn fuel oil when natural gas is far less $$.  On second look I realized they were burning waste oil.
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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2011, 05:41:56 PM »

It would be best to filter the stuff with a super fine filter like a Gulf Coast bypass filter. Then try it in a generator or small engine first. It is important to get the viscosity and burn temp correct. Too much volatiles could burn a hole somewhere in the engine. How about mixing it with winter (thin) diesel?
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wal1809
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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2011, 06:00:20 PM »

Drip it across a magnet, filter , thin it and run it. Wink
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JohnEd
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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2011, 07:08:38 PM »

Drip it across a magnet, filter , thin it and run it. Wink

The common word is that if you add the RUG first you get a much reduced settle time and you have more stuff drop out.  What I have heard many say.

I think when I get into alt fuels I will make a "Simple Centrifuge" my first purchase.  If the stuff is thin then the centrifuge can have a really high thru put.  Thicker oil just takes longer.  I would also opt to run my motor oil thru the cent on a regular basis.....5,000 miles.  My drain plug is a pretty strong magnet and if I find any stuff there I would start looking really close at everything.

Thanks for the comments, all.

John

John
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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2011, 07:18:39 PM »

I don't want this to appear to be a criticism of anybody....especially those that have been successfully doing something for years with huge success.

My problem is mixing RUG into WMO or any oil for that matter and then using that "blend" to fire a heating device in the structure.  Gasoline is such a dangerous and explosive substance....to me.  Your first  furnace malfunction, and we know they screw up cause people make a really fine living fixing them, will probably be your last if you discharge fuel from the heating device.  This was what was presented to me as a rebuttal when I brought up the possibility of viscosity management with solvents(RUG).

These guys have perfected the use of WMO as a fuel for boilers and air heaters.  They are sold on the com market and work just fine.  You don't NEED to run that risk.  Your fuel will be cheaper if you don't blend for heating oil and build the WMO unit with the plans and materials out there..

I hope my expression of my personal hangup doesn't offend anyone.
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2011, 08:06:42 PM »

Ive wondered about running a mix of wmo and wvo thru a cf....... start on diesel and shut down on diesel... or even making biodiesel with wmo
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JohnEd
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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2011, 08:40:51 PM »

Brat,

You can't make BioD from WMO or any petroleum oils.  Boy would that be a boon.  It keeps coming up in the BioD forums so it is a appealing idea shared by many.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
Gary '79 5C
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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2011, 12:53:03 AM »

JohnEd,

I would like to keep an open mind to opportunities, however my l thinking is in line with ZeroClearance. I prticipate in two Mercedes forums which many have bought old MB diesels and burn a number of waste oils, most incurr IP failures. Not all, so maybe it can be done, albeit for a finite period of time.

For me, if I did not want it in my crankcase, I do not wish to put it in my tank. Maybe old school, but Lord knows I do not have the money for an IP, or engine rebuild. Love you Luke & Bill, but no.
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wal1809
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« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2011, 02:46:15 AM »

The magnet is not for visible metal as just a 5 micron filter would take care of that.  It is for metal that can hardly be seen.
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« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2011, 04:25:48 AM »

  Reading much thats posted here and on the net, seeing some of the mixtures people are playing with, im not so sure im comfortable with all of it. Adding gasoline and oil together can not only create fuels that burn well, but can fool someone who thinks they are dealing with diesel fuel, something that wont normally burn, and create a real catastrophe when they find out it has the same volatility as Gasoline. You could throw lit matches into a bucket of fuel oil all day long and it wont ever catch fire. Add some Gasoline to it and someone could get a real surprise.

  It is also sad to see those old Mercedes diesels being tossed away as has been discussed, and reading that places a great shadow over the whole WVO discussion. How truly bad is WVO to an engine, what kind or real issues have been seen, or might have been seen, had those cars been torn down and inspected? We lost a lot of data by people doing that.

  At $4 gallon plus, diesel is expensive, there is no argument there. And my hat is off to Wal in running his Bus on WVO, and I hope the best. But this needs watching. There is so little data on the long term effects that it still appears risky. WMO adds yet another angle to the questions of long term effects. How does an injection pump hold up to fuel that is contaminated with acids and metal particles? How hard is it to fully clean and filter it to where its no longer harmful? And how does it burn? Does it build deposits?

  When you consider that older mechanical injected diesels had different injection timing specs for different Cetane rated fuels, or that the DD has different injectors for different applications, or that they use different injectors for Bunker oil than for #2 diesel, then the idea you can simply change the fuel type and viscosity without making any changes to the injectors or injection timing becomes suspect. I for one simply cannot believe you can run any other fuel through a diesel set up to run #2, and expect it to run optimally or without some ill effects. There is a great deal of engineering and testing done on engines to find the proper timing and injection nozzle for a particular combustion chamber with a particular fuel grade, and any change to the fuel will effect the combustion of that fuel. To what degree however, is the question, and it is for all intents, unknown without some kind of testing that looks into the combustion chamber over a period of time, and a teardown of the injection pump to see how its wearing.

  IOW, saving money on fuel is one thing, and great when it works. Creating volatile fuels, and putting those fuels into vehicles labeled as diesel fuel, and not labeling it, adds a danger that is simply not being addressed. And then destroying engines with WVO, and hiding the damage by just walking away and junking them, takes away a great deal of knowledge that could have been used, either to find work arounds to the problems, or to find its simply a dead end. A $10K engine failure after saving $9,998.00 on fuel isnt saving anything.

 

   
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Paso One
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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2011, 07:06:12 AM »


My problem is mixing RUG into WMO or any oil for that matter and then using that "blend" to fire a heating device in the structure.  Gasoline is such a dangerous and explosive substance....to me.  Your first  furnace malfunction, and we know they screw up cause people make a really fine living fixing them, will probably be your last if you discharge fuel from the heating device.  This was what was presented to me as a rebuttal when I brought up the possibility of viscosity management with solvents(RUG).

These guys have perfected the use of WMO as a fuel for boilers and air heaters.  They are sold on the com market and work just fine.  You don't NEED to run that risk.  Your fuel will be cheaper if you don't blend for heating oil and build the WMO unit with the plans and materials out there..

I hope my expression of my personal hangup doesn't offend anyone.

In my boiler the % of RUG is so small  It is almost the same as the old carberated engines of years past.

When the old cars flooded you had to change the motor oil as so much Gas got into the oil pan it diluted the oil.

I have capacity of 2000 gallons using " settling" as the main cleaner.

so many differant types of "oil " is mixed in that process that the rug is very minimal  you can maybe light a soaked rag Smiley  not very explosive

Just the mere mention of RUG in the mix sends shivers to many.  Smiley  not for the informed Smiley
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JohnEd
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« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2011, 08:14:33 AM »


In my boiler the % of RUG is so small 

I have never heard of adding only a couple percent of RUG to WMO.  In saying that I am defending my post.  Despite have read about this stuff for years, I get my eyes opened on issues daily.  And that is a good thing.  I'll just bet that before I finish this reply we are in agreement on almost all of it.



I have capacity of 2000 gallons using " settling" as the main cleaner.

Settling works really well on WVO and I suspect it would work for WMO.   Maybe take longer as the stuff LOOKS thicker to me.  The added RUG, in whatever concentration, will reduce settling time and I think it will cause other nasties to fall out as well.

so many differant types of "oil " is mixed in that process that the rug is very minimal  you can maybe light a soaked rag Smiley  not very explosive

If you mix at a ratio as to make a soaked rag barely lightable then your mixing RUG isn't a consideration.  I wonder why you blend at all is that is the case.  WMO burners require no blending and you seem to have made a WMO burner.  That info is widely available and modified burners are for sale by numerous sources.  The blending going on here is for D substitute....different animal.

Just the mere mention of RUG in the mix sends shivers to many.  Smiley  not for the informed Smiley

Well said and so very true.  I and most everyone else here wish you all manner of success and enjoyment.   Make no mistake about this groups ultimate good intention and I am not saying you have.
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
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