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Author Topic: Anyone Know Alcoa #'s  (Read 2573 times)
Paso One
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« on: September 27, 2006, 06:46:18 PM »

anyone know  Part numbers for what alcoa 24.5 or 22.5 rims that will fit the GM 10 bolt wheels ( hub piloted ) ??
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68 5303 Fishbowl 40' x 102"
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Kristinsgrandpa
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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2006, 07:16:24 PM »

Try www.Alcoa.com.

Ed
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Paso One
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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2006, 07:29:43 PM »

I have been there but couldn't find any application charts etc.. I was hoping someone bought some and new specifically what the part #'s were. thks paul
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68 5303 Fishbowl 40' x 102"
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WEC4104
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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2006, 07:30:50 PM »

Paso:

I sent you an email with a PDF document that was too large to attach to a post here on the board. After that, I found another document that might help. See attached

WEC4104

Revised ... Okay nevermind. Even that 2 page Pdf document was too large to be accept by the board.
Link to document on web ...  http://www.alcoa.com/alcoawheels/north_america/en/xbr/docs/brochure.pdf
« Last Edit: September 27, 2006, 07:35:27 PM by WEC4104 » Logged

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Paso One
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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2006, 07:38:02 PM »

Great Thanks Wayne  Where did you find that ?  have been all over the alcoa site
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68 5303 Fishbowl 40' x 102"
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WEC4104
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« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2006, 07:50:47 PM »

A year or two ago I found the PDF document that I emailed you, and downloaded to my PC. When I found out the file size was too large to post, I went looking for a web link to post.   A google search on "Alcoa wheels hub piloted bus" got me to one of their web pages. There was a small photo of a wheel on the side of the page with a caption that said "Click here for more Dura-Bright info. (or something like that). Clicked there, and then on "product brochure".

WEC4104
« Last Edit: September 27, 2006, 09:03:44 PM by WEC4104 » Logged

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Paso One
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« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2006, 08:17:22 PM »

Thanks Wayne and Ed I guess I just needed my hand held.  883610 Db for 22.5 's or 983610 DB for the 24.5's incase anybody else needs them  thksPaul
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TomC
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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2006, 11:36:36 PM »

Don't forget to look at Accuride too.  Freightliner's main aluminum wheel-usually a bit cheaper than Alcoa and they look exactly the same.  Get the Accurides with Accushield Finish on the outside facing wheels and you won't ever have to polish them again.  Course Alcoa has Durabrights too.  Good Luck, TomC
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Len Silva
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2006, 04:43:58 AM »

I believe that any of the GM coaches are going to be stud piloted.

Len
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Dallas
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2006, 06:36:33 AM »

I believe that any of the GM coaches are going to be stud piloted.

Len

I believe your right Len.

Hub piloted wheels have lugnuts with a washer.

Stud piloted wheels don't.

Or, I've got it backwards ...... again!
Measure twice, cut once, measure twice, cut twice, measure once, cut twice!
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RJ
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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2006, 06:44:43 AM »

Dallas -

You got it right the first time -

Stud piloted wheels use a lug nut with a champhered edge - just like most autos except larger.

Hub piloted use lug nuts with a built-in washer.


Paso -

Better check your coach again, to make sure of the type of wheels you've got before ordering!   Wink
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Paso One
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« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2006, 07:06:51 AM »

Okay Thanks,  I have Both actually The fishbowl I got off Brian Has the lug nuts with the washer. The rims look the same and I was wondering the difference. I have been transfering parts from a 77 Transit and it has a new drums on the front with long studs as the nut has many threads after tight.  I took the 22.5 rims off the  77 and but them on my 5303 and have used them all summer. Have been thinking of transfering the whole front end assembly ( it has power steering) and very tight  I wanted the #'s so I can watch for them on sale Smiley  I have mis understood looking at the front hub thinking because it rested all around on the centre it was hub piloted and the studs just kept it tight.

Thanks Tom on the freightliner tip as I got a good connection at the local Freightliner dealer.
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Len Silva
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« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2006, 08:29:05 AM »

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (never happened so far  Wink) but I think stud piloted wheels will have a beveled or champhered edge around the stud holes.  The hub piloted whells will just be plain holes.

Len
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Paso One
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« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2006, 08:35:39 AM »

Len That's  exactly the way I thought it was. until I obviousley got mixed up as the champhered hole lines it up to the stud as each is tightened. I'll wait for the majority ruling Smiley  Smiley Smiley .
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« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2006, 09:16:18 AM »

Len,you are correct and the two cannot be interchanged
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Len Silva
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« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2006, 09:29:55 AM »

I'm wondering if it's possible to modify a hub piloted wheel which is now much more common and available than stud piloted. Assuming the stud diameter and bolt circle are the same, could the stud holes be champhered and the hub bore resized?

Len
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Dallas
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« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2006, 09:40:03 AM »

I'm wondering if it's possible to modify a hub piloted wheel which is now much more common and available than stud piloted. Assuming the stud diameter and bolt circle are the same, could the stud holes be champhered and the hub bore resized?

Len

Len,
I don't think there is.

Stud piloted wheels are mostly SAE (inch) and Hub piloted are mostly Metric.

You may be able to go to your local bearing and wheel place and see if there is a hub that will interchange with your spindle. Or you could go deeper and see if there is a Kingpin/spindle setup that will interchange close enough to make work.

Good luck, no matter what you do.
Also, if you find changeovers, let us know!

Dallas
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Len Silva
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« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2006, 10:52:17 AM »

Looking at the Alcoa website above, these are the measurements for both type wheels

                                  Bolt Circle          Hub Bore       Bolt Hole
Stud Pilot 883110DB     11.25 "              8.73"            1.219"

Hub Pilot  885600DB      285.75 mm        220.1 mm      26.75mm

                                  exactly the         0.065"           0.166"
                                   same                smaller            smaller

I don't know the chamfer angle on the stud holes but it looks like a competent machine shop could modify hub piloted wheels to go on stud pilot wheels without much difficulty.  All the other dimensions are exactly the same.

This is not something I'm considering for myself, just tossing it out for discussion.  It looks like used take off hub piloted wheels are much more readily available.

Len
« Last Edit: September 28, 2006, 11:35:03 AM by Len Silva » Logged


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Paso One
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« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2006, 12:27:57 PM »

I will pull the nut off the wheel with the washer on the nut to see if the nut is also champhered it is possible its got some kind of odd ball nut and washer.  My bus and my parts bus were both made in Canada.  Brians old bus was made in the USA that is the one with the nut with washer style nuts.  On the link wayne posted it shows a 10 hole hub piloted bus mounting column (line 15 & 16 ) that uses the two piece flange nut. But I think I got my answer I'll watch for stud located aluminum wheels on the e place. What started this is someone in Canada had a set with no Bids. Thought I'd look to the future. :0
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« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2006, 12:42:07 PM »

The wheels with the washers behind the nut, is called Hub-pilot.
The wheels with the nut chaffered, actually centers the wheel, is called a, BUDD wheel.
Just so you know
Steve
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buswarrior
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« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2006, 02:58:23 PM »

Hello tire changers.

Budd wheels are a popular name for the stud pilot style, with chamferred edges to the holes and fasteners.

Hub pilot use the fasteners with the integrated washer on the nut and have squared off stud holes on the wheels. In the past I have heard them called "motor wheels" and recently some trucking media call them "transit wheels" because they have been very popular with the bus folks for a long time.

You may successfully use a stud pilioted wheel in a hub pilot system, since the chamferred edges are irrelevent, but you may not switch the other way. Square edges on stud holes are not compatible with the chamferred fasteners.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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