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Author Topic: Well that was humbling.  (Read 3879 times)
challenger440
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« on: June 22, 2011, 01:00:10 PM »

Well that was humbling.  But fun.  Took Magic Bus for its first drive today.  Magic ran exceptionally well.  Oil pressure, temp, steering, clutch, all worked well. 

  Everything worked well except the guy shifting the tranny (4spd).
I’ve driven all kinds of vehicles from farm tractors to  drag car and I’ve always been able to shift.  I can even shift the old Allis-Chalmers while driving down the field, but I had a terrible time getting the shifts in ol Magic.  It was my first try at it and I’m sure I’ll get it just fine but my ego has been brought down a notch or two.

  All in all a great experience.  Can’t wait to go again. 

John M.
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John M.
Helena, Mt
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2011, 01:03:30 PM »

John,
The more ya drive it the easier it will be to get it in gear with less grinding.

"The more they grind, the quicker they round off and grind less! Grin"


Oh that was baddddd but I jest couldn't stop myself!(Im sorry)
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
eddiepotts
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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2011, 01:07:32 PM »

You most likely have the same problem most of us do. It's not a race car. You have to actually wait for the engine to slow down before you make the shift. Double clutch is a must. You will get it and the fun will be hearing the smooth shifts. You will be the only one on the bus that understands the feeling.
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challenger440
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« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2011, 01:08:19 PM »

Yep, time to get out and practice.  Lots of big mountain passes around here.  Want to make sure I can shift before tackling those bad boys.  I'm pretty sure I rounded off a few teeth today. They should fit better next time.  jm
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John M.
Helena, Mt
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Carcrazyguy57
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« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2011, 01:16:54 PM »

Yeah, I remember. Try that counting thing, 1thousand 1 1thousand 2, the higher the gear the less you need.
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22 cars, 2 bikes, & 1 boat counting down. 1973 Eagle 05 Vulcan Coach Conversion
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« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2011, 01:17:46 PM »

Before i first drove my bus I wathced this.
Double Clutching

and other double clutching vids on youtube.

oh and this one is good mostly 'cause of what a beater truck cab he has,
yeeee haa.
How to double clutch and some transmission tidbits
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 01:32:46 PM by zubzub » Logged

robertglines1
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« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2011, 01:18:23 PM »

Ck trans oil level. You need every advantage you can.
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oldmansax
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« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2011, 02:42:24 PM »

Well that was humbling. 
John M.

Ain't it the truth!!!  Sad Sad

I, like you, have driven all kinds of vehicles, all my life; including some Macks with duplexes, & triplexes, I had a Marmon with a 1693 Cat & a Spicer 5x4, and a '50s International 10 wheeler that had a 5x3 + a 2 speed rear.

The Spicer 4 speed in my MC7 is the most ornery thing to shift smoothly I have ever driven.

TOM
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RJ
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« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2011, 03:30:56 PM »

John -

Don't know if you have read this already, but it might help:

http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/12262/16204.html?1167073154

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink

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RJ Long
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challenger440
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« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2011, 04:22:36 PM »

Thanks all.  RJ, great article.  Thought I had it figured.  But I'm just not matching rpm to gears well enough.  Practice, practice.  jm
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John M.
Helena, Mt
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« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2011, 04:58:12 PM »

Well, JohnM (Challenger440):

I know EXACTLY what you mean! I also have driven trucks, semis, farm tractors, etc. But yesterday I was driving around our town. Up-shifting was no problem. No grinding. However, down-shifting (such as coming up to a stop light) my Spicer SST-10 10-speed is a whole different story. I don't think I managed to down-shift more than a couple of times without grinding, no matter how much I double clutched and watched the RPM's. Very frustrating! Now, I admit that I am not the brightest light on the Christmas tree...
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Dr. Steve, San Juan del Río, Querétaro, Mexico, North America, Planet Earth, Milky Way.
1981 Dina Olímpico (Flxible Flxliner clone), 6V92TA Detroit Diesel
Rockwell model RM135A 9-speed manual tranny.
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100 miles North West of Mexico City, Mexico. 6,800 feet altitude.
Charles in SC
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« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2011, 05:37:09 PM »

I do not know how far you drove it but I find that the way mine changes gears changes as the tranny oil warms up . If your transmission is the same as mine it is very tough (I have been surprised I have not torn it up many times).
Mine does not shift as smooth as the one in the posted video.
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TedsBUSted
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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2011, 06:58:33 PM »

I don't believe that video #1 demonstrates the best methods. If that were a heavy truck it'd be getting torn up.

With video #1's edits it tough to tell exactly what's going on, but, on take off it looks like the driver is fueling while "riding" the clutch. Also on shifts it looks like he's fueling hard before the clutch is engaged. After a shift, fuel should be eased on to tighten things up and then accelerated from there; no sense shocking everything by immediately  "canning it," especially before the clutch is engaged.  Also, it's best for the driver's foot  to lift completely off the clutch the moment clutch work is done. And the right foot should be rested so that the accelerator isn't being "pumped" during shifting or from a rough ride.

With video #2 the driver explains the concepts well. Although I don't know what's up with the home-brew twin-stick shifter. As to the shifting demonstration, I  believe the truck in video #2 has a syncromesh box, except for 1st gear, which wasn't demonstrated.

Mex-Busnut - You'll probably want to practice "skip-shifting" with your downshifts. It's just not going to be practical to progressively "step-shift" every gear when stopping, the same way you would progressively up-shift through each gear on a hard pull.

Challenger440 - Mostly what makes bus shifting different from a truck (or on-the-fly farm tractor) is the remote sound and feel compared to being "there."  Also, compared to a truck, the bus 4-speeds are like falling off a cliff between gears, so it takes more time to make up or drop revs. With your other shifting experiences, I think you'll get over the humbling quickly.

"Hear ye" on cold oil making shifts more difficult.

What really makes a good clutch-man great, is knowing that if he stalls it's not gonna start again, and he's gonna be walking.  Shocked

Ted
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 07:03:15 PM by TedsBUSted » Logged

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Beatenbo
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« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2011, 07:25:33 PM »

No matter what anyone or any books says...all the tales about shifting with no clutch....or which way bus transmissions have no syncro..and you have to double clutch to slow the spinning gears and the right timing to match engine RPM..I don't know everything but I have over one million bus miles...You should tackle one of the old GM "Buffalos" with a wet clutch.  You cannot get a smooth or no grind shift without double clutch.
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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2011, 07:30:18 PM »

  I think RJ's article is a very good description. Lots of enertia in there keeping it from spooling down. And without syncros there just isnt any possible way through except speed matching.

  What I did find that worked really well, and ive not read much here about it, is double clutching the upshifts. Once I started doing that and it seemed almost like syncromesh going up through the gears. Which would tend to suggest the gearbox isnt spooling down as fast as the engine.

  4th has been my greatest issue in humbling me, it takes eons to drop it in, so im almost always early and graunch it.
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