Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
December 21, 2014, 11:19:17 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an Online Subscription: It will not be stolen by your mailman or your neighbor who also may be into buses.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Well that was humbling.  (Read 4456 times)
challenger440
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 189


WWW

Ignore
« on: June 22, 2011, 01:00:10 PM »

Well that was humbling.  But fun.  Took Magic Bus for its first drive today.  Magic ran exceptionally well.  Oil pressure, temp, steering, clutch, all worked well. 

  Everything worked well except the guy shifting the tranny (4spd).
I’ve driven all kinds of vehicles from farm tractors to  drag car and I’ve always been able to shift.  I can even shift the old Allis-Chalmers while driving down the field, but I had a terrible time getting the shifts in ol Magic.  It was my first try at it and I’m sure I’ll get it just fine but my ego has been brought down a notch or two.

  All in all a great experience.  Can’t wait to go again. 

John M.
Logged

John M.
Helena, Mt
MC7  "under construction"
Busted Knuckle
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6447


6 Setras, 2 MCIs, and 1 Dina. Just buses ;D


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2011, 01:03:30 PM »

John,
The more ya drive it the easier it will be to get it in gear with less grinding.

"The more they grind, the quicker they round off and grind less! Grin"


Oh that was baddddd but I jest couldn't stop myself!(Im sorry)
Grin  BK  Grin
Logged

Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
eddiepotts
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 446





Ignore
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2011, 01:07:32 PM »

You most likely have the same problem most of us do. It's not a race car. You have to actually wait for the engine to slow down before you make the shift. Double clutch is a must. You will get it and the fun will be hearing the smooth shifts. You will be the only one on the bus that understands the feeling.
Logged
challenger440
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 189


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2011, 01:08:19 PM »

Yep, time to get out and practice.  Lots of big mountain passes around here.  Want to make sure I can shift before tackling those bad boys.  I'm pretty sure I rounded off a few teeth today. They should fit better next time.  jm
Logged

John M.
Helena, Mt
MC7  "under construction"
Carcrazyguy57
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


1975 Eagle 05 Vulcan Coach Conversion




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2011, 01:16:54 PM »

Yeah, I remember. Try that counting thing, 1thousand 1 1thousand 2, the higher the gear the less you need.
Logged

22 cars, 2 bikes, & 1 boat counting down. 1973 Eagle 05 Vulcan Coach Conversion
zubzub
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1168


'53 4104. Roadworthy but rough around the edges.


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2011, 01:17:46 PM »

Before i first drove my bus I wathced this.
Double Clutching

and other double clutching vids on youtube.

oh and this one is good mostly 'cause of what a beater truck cab he has,
yeeee haa.
How to double clutch and some transmission tidbits
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 01:32:46 PM by zubzub » Logged

robertglines1
steam nut
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4065





Ignore
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2011, 01:18:23 PM »

Ck trans oil level. You need every advantage you can.
Logged

Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
oldmansax
Tom & Phyllis
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1029


'82 Bluebird Wanderlodge PT40




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2011, 02:42:24 PM »

Well that was humbling. 
John M.

Ain't it the truth!!!  Sad Sad

I, like you, have driven all kinds of vehicles, all my life; including some Macks with duplexes, & triplexes, I had a Marmon with a 1693 Cat & a Spicer 5x4, and a '50s International 10 wheeler that had a 5x3 + a 2 speed rear.

The Spicer 4 speed in my MC7 is the most ornery thing to shift smoothly I have ever driven.

TOM
Logged

'82 BlueBird WanderLodge PT40 being rebuilt
Delaware

DON'T STEAL! The government hates competition!
RJ
Former Giant Greenbrier Owner
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2881





Ignore
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2011, 03:30:56 PM »

John -

Don't know if you have read this already, but it might help:

http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/12262/16204.html?1167073154

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink

Logged

RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
S13406 Now
Fresno CA
challenger440
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 189


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2011, 04:22:36 PM »

Thanks all.  RJ, great article.  Thought I had it figured.  But I'm just not matching rpm to gears well enough.  Practice, practice.  jm
Logged

John M.
Helena, Mt
MC7  "under construction"
Mex-Busnut
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1136





Ignore
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2011, 04:58:12 PM »

Well, JohnM (Challenger440):

I know EXACTLY what you mean! I also have driven trucks, semis, farm tractors, etc. But yesterday I was driving around our town. Up-shifting was no problem. No grinding. However, down-shifting (such as coming up to a stop light) my Spicer SST-10 10-speed is a whole different story. I don't think I managed to down-shift more than a couple of times without grinding, no matter how much I double clutched and watched the RPM's. Very frustrating! Now, I admit that I am not the brightest light on the Christmas tree...
Logged

Dr. Steve, San Juan del Río, Querétaro, Mexico, North America, Planet Earth, Milky Way.
1981 Dina Olímpico (Flxible Flxliner clone), 6V92TA Detroit Diesel
Rockwell model RM135A 9-speed manual tranny.
Jake brakes
100 miles North West of Mexico City, Mexico. 6,800 feet altitude.
Charles in SC
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 316




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2011, 05:37:09 PM »

I do not know how far you drove it but I find that the way mine changes gears changes as the tranny oil warms up . If your transmission is the same as mine it is very tough (I have been surprised I have not torn it up many times).
Mine does not shift as smooth as the one in the posted video.
Logged

S8M 5303 built in 1969, converted in 2000
TedsBUSted
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 236




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2011, 06:58:33 PM »

I don't believe that video #1 demonstrates the best methods. If that were a heavy truck it'd be getting torn up.

With video #1's edits it tough to tell exactly what's going on, but, on take off it looks like the driver is fueling while "riding" the clutch. Also on shifts it looks like he's fueling hard before the clutch is engaged. After a shift, fuel should be eased on to tighten things up and then accelerated from there; no sense shocking everything by immediately  "canning it," especially before the clutch is engaged.  Also, it's best for the driver's foot  to lift completely off the clutch the moment clutch work is done. And the right foot should be rested so that the accelerator isn't being "pumped" during shifting or from a rough ride.

With video #2 the driver explains the concepts well. Although I don't know what's up with the home-brew twin-stick shifter. As to the shifting demonstration, I  believe the truck in video #2 has a syncromesh box, except for 1st gear, which wasn't demonstrated.

Mex-Busnut - You'll probably want to practice "skip-shifting" with your downshifts. It's just not going to be practical to progressively "step-shift" every gear when stopping, the same way you would progressively up-shift through each gear on a hard pull.

Challenger440 - Mostly what makes bus shifting different from a truck (or on-the-fly farm tractor) is the remote sound and feel compared to being "there."  Also, compared to a truck, the bus 4-speeds are like falling off a cliff between gears, so it takes more time to make up or drop revs. With your other shifting experiences, I think you'll get over the humbling quickly.

"Hear ye" on cold oil making shifts more difficult.

What really makes a good clutch-man great, is knowing that if he stalls it's not gonna start again, and he's gonna be walking.  Shocked

Ted
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 07:03:15 PM by TedsBUSted » Logged

Bus polygamist. Always room for another, especially ‘04 or ‘06 are welcome. NE from Chicago, across the pond.
Beatenbo
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 275


1993 MCI 102 C3 Cat Power


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2011, 07:25:33 PM »

No matter what anyone or any books says...all the tales about shifting with no clutch....or which way bus transmissions have no syncro..and you have to double clutch to slow the spinning gears and the right timing to match engine RPM..I don't know everything but I have over one million bus miles...You should tackle one of the old GM "Buffalos" with a wet clutch.  You cannot get a smooth or no grind shift without double clutch.
Logged
blank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1929




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2011, 07:30:18 PM »

  I think RJ's article is a very good description. Lots of enertia in there keeping it from spooling down. And without syncros there just isnt any possible way through except speed matching.

  What I did find that worked really well, and ive not read much here about it, is double clutching the upshifts. Once I started doing that and it seemed almost like syncromesh going up through the gears. Which would tend to suggest the gearbox isnt spooling down as fast as the engine.

  4th has been my greatest issue in humbling me, it takes eons to drop it in, so im almost always early and graunch it.
Logged
Mex-Busnut
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1136





Ignore
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2011, 08:16:16 PM »

Thanks for all the contributions.

Ted: Maybe that double stick in video #2 is in fact a 4-wheel-drive transfer case?
Logged

Dr. Steve, San Juan del Río, Querétaro, Mexico, North America, Planet Earth, Milky Way.
1981 Dina Olímpico (Flxible Flxliner clone), 6V92TA Detroit Diesel
Rockwell model RM135A 9-speed manual tranny.
Jake brakes
100 miles North West of Mexico City, Mexico. 6,800 feet altitude.
blank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1929




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2011, 09:06:03 PM »


Ted: Maybe that double stick in video #2 is in fact a 4-wheel-drive transfer case?

  No. He is shifting it while moving, and actually saying "first" as he pushes it forward. It looks like an old granny 3 speed with one stick for 1st and reverse, the other for 2nd/3rd. If it was a transfer case lever he wouldnt be doing that.
Logged
gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3546





Ignore
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2011, 09:11:54 PM »

I've driven everything from an 18 wheeler down and have a bunch of antique big trucks but my 4104 is the hardest thing to shift gracefully than anything I've ever driven.

I find that the main thing is giving enough time between shifts, especially going up.

I don't use the clutch going up except when starting from a dead stop, but double clutch (very rapidly while holding down foot throttle) shifting down for grades.

Again, my biggest problem for a year or two was not waiting long enough between shifts going up.

Patience, patience!! I can't say this often enough.

The only thing that will help is practice, videos won't help you much.
Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
RJ
Former Giant Greenbrier Owner
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2881





Ignore
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2011, 11:12:01 PM »

You should tackle one of the old GM "Buffalos" with a wet clutch.  You cannot get a smooth or no grind shift without double clutch.

And to make it even more entertaining, try shifting a wet-clutch Buffalo that is equipped with an air throttle!

 Grin
Logged

RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
S13406 Now
Fresno CA
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 4882


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2011, 05:31:19 AM »

I also find the Spicer the hardest transmission to shift that I have ever driven.  I need to get in a rhythm and religiously count the timing until I've been driving for a couple of hours after a long layoff.  Upshifting is one thing, it took thousands of miles for me to get close to smooth on downshifts.  For example the common 4 - 3 downshift going up a hill is very fast, as fast as I can work the clutch.

I have a spare spicer in the shop and I examined it to find out why it's so hard to shift.  The answer is the dogs that engage each gear are very small and there are a lot of them - they are actually the splines that the shift hubs slide on along the main shaft.  the splines are about 1/4" or so wide, and there are around 30 of them.  They have to line up quite precisely in order to allow the hub to engage  the gear.  On most non-synchro transmissions the dogs are separate from the splines, far larger and with a lot more room to engage.  On my racing gearboxes there are often only 4 dogs per gear, and you can engage that in milliseconds.  There is no way to speed up shifting a Spicer 8844, and there is no way I would shift one that I owned without the double-clutch.  The dogs are too small, too prone to wear, and totally  not designed to be shifted without a double clutch.

Brian
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
blank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1929




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2011, 06:52:16 AM »

The dogs are too small, too prone to wear, and totally  not designed to be shifted without a double clutch.

Brian

  Are the sliders like common syncro hubs, only solid? Thats how your description sounds.

  Somehow I approached the Bus like a Big boat. The first time I docked a big boat I was amazed at the momentum of so much more mass bumping into the dock. Where a small boat bangs the dock and bounces off, the big boat does not bounce, and rather tries to plow through the dock.

  Everything in the Bus is in greater scale of size to most any other road vehicle save a OTR truck. The bullet bikes can rev in neutral from idle speed to 9K rpm and back to idle, seemingly instantaneously. Vroom vroom. Not so the massive engines and gear trains, which spool up and down so much more slowly. The parts connected to the shift lever and clutch, make up many, many pounds of moving machinery and require much more human effort to push and pull, and so then have much more increased mass and momentum. Start trying to jack the shifts and horse it and it will fight back and make your life hell. Either in making you look like a fool, or emptying your bank account with broken parts. Let it tell you what it wants and go easy, and it seems to answer back much more graciously.
Logged
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 4882


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2011, 07:25:40 AM »

Art, they are equivalent but not really all that similar.  Inside the gearbox, and inside the synchro boxes that I have worked on, the main shaft change gears rotate freely on the main shaft, and are locked to the main shaft when engaged by a hub that is splined to and can slide along the shaft.  So far, very similar.  On a synchromesh hub there usually is a cone or a baulk ring that acts as a clutch to match the speed of the gear that is being engaged to the speed of the hub that is rotating locked to the main shaft.  After the two gears are matched as the hub is moved, the synchro hub teeth engage into their matching teeth on the gear.  The synchro hub teeth are usually really small, on my gearboxes about 1/8" wide and tall, and there might be 50 of them on the circumference of the hub.

On the Spicer 8844 setup, there is a sliding hub, it just doesn't have the synchro stuff on it, and as mentioned the teeth (what I call "dogs" since that's what we call them on all the other non-synchro transmissions I work on) that engage the gear are actually the splines that the hub is locked to and slides along the main shaft on.  The splines are around 1/4" to 3/8" wide (first and second gear has wider splines than third and fourth gear) and are rounded on their nose to facilitate engaging, but they wear down when they grind (really they are rattling past each other trying to find a speed that matches). 

The one/two sliding hub also has reverse gear on it.  When you flip the solenoid switch to allow reverse gear to be engaged, the solenoid moves the shift rod over so that it no longer controls the one-two  shift hub with reverse gear on it, which is locked in neutral between first  and second gears, and the shift rod moves the reverse idler gear over so that it is engaged between the reverse on the main shaft and the reverse on the layshaft.  Having three gears in the chain instead of two is what reverses the transferred motion.  Reverse is the only gear where an actual gear is moved to make the engagement, and the only gear that is straight-cut.  All the other gears are helical cut on about a 20 degree angle.

Brian
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
zimtok
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 296



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2011, 07:31:43 AM »

The first video in ZubZub's post is me.... I'll admit I was just getting the hang of the double clutch thing in the video and I had a tendency to shift too quickly, I do have a bad habit of leaving my foot on the clutch pedal but I don't have any pressure on the pedal. (still no excuse)

It shows the basic beginner how to do a double clutch in a bus, and with all the comments that have been posted explaining the things I did wrong it is a good learning video. Sort of a "learn by MY mistakes" kind of thing. Currently at nearly 150K views if it helps show someone through the double clutching I'm satisfied.

I probably need to do another video with proper technique and also add the downshifting.



.
Logged

1960 PD4104-4971 - Memphis TN

Buy the new Eddie L Smith CD "STAYIN LONG" at:
http://www.eddielsmith.com
Everyone is welcome to any of our gigs listed on the website.

gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3546





Ignore
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2011, 02:17:02 PM »

I can't emphasize enough that you don't need the clutch going up in gears once you are rolling. I can do this with all my old trucks, synchro or not.

After seven years of driving the 4107 my opinion is it is just unnecessary clutch wear (Especially double clutching) and the shifts are no smoother than without. You can feel the gears if they aren't ready to mesh, so you just wait.

All that said, I'm sure enjoying my V730!!
Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
zubzub
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1168


'53 4104. Roadworthy but rough around the edges.


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2011, 03:51:37 PM »

The first video in ZubZub's post is me.... I'll admit I was just getting the hang of the double clutch thing in the video and I had a tendency to shift too quickly, I do have a bad habit of leaving my foot on the clutch pedal but I don't have any pressure on the pedal. (still no excuse)

It shows the basic beginner how to do a double clutch in a bus, and with all the comments that have been posted explaining the things I did wrong it is a good learning video. Sort of a "learn by MY mistakes" kind of thing. Currently at nearly 150K views if it helps show someone through the double clutching I'm satisfied.

I probably need to do another video with proper technique and also add the downshifting.



.

Hey Zimtok your clip  and RJ's article taught me how to double clutch!  I had only heard about but never seen it until I saw that clip.  I never realized how quick the 2 clutch punch could be.  Anyhow I watched that clip and 1 week later drove my bus.  Missed 2 shifts in to 2nd quite pathetically...had to restart from 1st, but the tranny was cold and hadn't been driven in years.  Then I had it.  Don't remember missing again.  FWIW even if your technique is "not right" by some standards it worked for me, but maybe my bus is easy to shift. 
Logged

bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 4882


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2011, 03:57:32 PM »

Gus, did all your old trucks have Spicer 8844 transmissions?  Probably not, but I'm sure the 4107 did.  I'm not saying the transmission can't be shifted without the clutch, I'm just saying that it was not designed to be shifted like that, it doesn't like to be shifted like that and you stand a good chance of breaking it or wearing it  out prematurely if you shift it like that.  Purely based on the design of the engagement mechanism inside the gearbox.   Given that understanding I can't recommend clutchless shifting.  Now, if you can get the thing to shift perfectly every time, more power to you, but mine won't do that.  I don't shift the transmission in my Dodge ram without the clutch either, but i know that it will do it if I ever wanted to try.

Brian
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
TedsBUSted
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 236




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2011, 09:41:37 PM »

Hey Zimtok your clip  and RJ's article taught me how to double clutch!  I had only heard about but never seen it until I saw that clip.  I never realized how quick the 2 clutch punch could be.  Anyhow I watched that clip and 1 week later drove my bus. . . .

That's a good point. I wish I had written reply #12 with a more positive tone, because both videos (and of course RJ's article) are very helpful.

Thanks for the  video Zimtok, I apologize for my harsh tone.

Ted
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 09:50:53 PM by TedsBUSted » Logged

Bus polygamist. Always room for another, especially ‘04 or ‘06 are welcome. NE from Chicago, across the pond.
RJ
Former Giant Greenbrier Owner
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2881





Ignore
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2011, 10:05:42 PM »

All -

OK, guys, here you go.  I knew if I poked around on YouTube a little I'd find this for you.

Tom McNally from Ohio has a beautifully restored Scenicruiser.  This video was shot on the way back from the Scenicruiser Rally Tom put together along Route 66 in April of 2010. As the video info says, Fred Rayman retired with over 30 years experience driving a bus - and still owns a 4104, IIRC.  Fred does not post on any of the bus boards, but is an avid busnut with an extensive collection of memorabilia.

Watch how easy "Derf" makes double-clutching look:

Fred Rayman drives my Scenicruiser April 10, 2010


(PS: At the 3:45 mark, the fellow sitting on the drivers side wearing glasses is Larry Plachno, the publisher of National Bus Trader and Bus Tours magazines.)

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
Logged

RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
S13406 Now
Fresno CA
Mex-Busnut
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1136





Ignore
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2011, 11:53:33 PM »

By the way, ladies and gentlemen:

My tranny is (according to the original Dina bus factory bill of sale) a Spicer SST-10, for which I have found ZERO information on the web. Can anybody give me some idea what the ten gear ratios might be?

Thanks in advance!
Logged

Dr. Steve, San Juan del Río, Querétaro, Mexico, North America, Planet Earth, Milky Way.
1981 Dina Olímpico (Flxible Flxliner clone), 6V92TA Detroit Diesel
Rockwell model RM135A 9-speed manual tranny.
Jake brakes
100 miles North West of Mexico City, Mexico. 6,800 feet altitude.
zubzub
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1168


'53 4104. Roadworthy but rough around the edges.


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2011, 03:44:07 AM »

By the way, ladies and gentlemen:

My tranny is (according to the original Dina bus factory bill of sale) a Spicer SST-10, for which I have found ZERO information on the web. Can anybody give me some idea what the ten gear ratios might be?

Thanks in advance!


http://www.bigtractorparts.com/downloads/Spicer_10spdServiceSM.pdf

I just googled this and found it quickly....if you couldn't find it you may have been invaded by Bing or other invasive mal search engine that pretends to search but directs to sponsor sites
Logged

TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6979





Ignore
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2011, 07:43:16 AM »

When Eaton bought out Spicer transmission, the name on this transmission changed to the Super10.  It was used for about 8 years before Eaton discontinued to make it.  Driver's had a love hate relationship with this transmission.  In later years it was made in a top 2 configuration where the transmission automatically shifted between 9th and 10th (you don't have that feature).  The nice thing about this transmission is that if the splitter went out, then you'd typically be still able to use gears 2-4-6-8-10.  With the main problem with this transmission being the gear splitter, I would just leave the splitter in the high position and drive it like a 5 spd most of the time-leaving splitting the gears only when you need it-like when going up or down serious hills or mountain passes.  If you have trouble with this transmission, most any truck repair shop will be able to repair it since at one time, all truck manufacturers offered the Eaton Super10 as an option.  If you want to see the ratios of this transmission go to Roadranger.com and pull up on highway heavy duty transmissions and look up a B model 10spd overdrive transmission (11.06, 8.19, 6.05, 4.46, 3.34, 2.48, 1.83, 1.36, 1.00, .75).    The gears are almost perfectly evenly spaced.  So if you were to shift only using the main gears as a 5 spd, if you rev to 2100 rpm, the shift will let the engine come down to 1140rpm-which on the flat would be fine.  Make sure to check the oil in the transmission everytime you change the oil in the engine-the number one failure of transmissions is lack of oil.  The oil level should be even with the fill hole-not a finger down.  Fill it until the oil just barely starts coming out of the fill hole-then you'll have maximum oil for maximum cooling-probably does not have a cooler on it.  If the engine is less then 1450lb/ft of torque, you do not need a cooler.  Great transmission if properly maintained.  I personally liked them.  Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Mex-Busnut
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1136





Ignore
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2011, 09:05:54 AM »

Wow, TomC!! Thanks a million!! You are so bright, your mama calls you "son"!!

So without splitting, 1040 would be close to my downshift RPM?
Logged

Dr. Steve, San Juan del Río, Querétaro, Mexico, North America, Planet Earth, Milky Way.
1981 Dina Olímpico (Flxible Flxliner clone), 6V92TA Detroit Diesel
Rockwell model RM135A 9-speed manual tranny.
Jake brakes
100 miles North West of Mexico City, Mexico. 6,800 feet altitude.
gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3546





Ignore
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2011, 10:01:34 AM »

Brian,

I don't know the model number, it is the original 4104 4 speed.

All I'm saying is, from experience with this one, it shifts as well if not better without the clutch. Others may not be like mine, it is the only 4104 I've driven.

I don't see how there can be any extra wear when the gears don't clash and all the gears are unloaded.

If I miss a shift I just go ahead and use the clutch normally but that doesn't happen often. I have a five ton White WC22 with 5sp/2sp that shifts the same way.
Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
blank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1929




Ignore
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2011, 07:21:56 PM »

  As long as the speeds match and it dont grind, its not an issue. If they didnt mean for it to grind, like ever, they would have gave it syncros.
Logged
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6979





Ignore
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2011, 09:07:05 PM »

Mex-busnut-most Detroits will rev to 2300rpm and hit the governor.  With shifting just with your gear shift (without the splitter) your end engine rpm should be around 1250rpm-which is a good flat land speed.  If you're on a hill-then is when the splitter comes into play.  To shift through the gears, you start typically in 1st high or 2nd low, then when you split to second high-move the splitter first, then just release the gas pedal (no clutch), let the engine come down to the normal shift point around 1500rpm then re apply the gas pedal.  To shift and split at the same time, just before you shift, click the splitter down then move the gear shift to neutral then to the next gear (should double clutch until you are familiar with the rpm drops).  To down shift-it is just the opposite.  To only split shift down, first release the gas pedal (no clutch) then click the splitter down, then reapply power. To down shift and split, release the gas pedal and push in the clutch, as you move the shifter to neutral, click the splitter down, then let out the clutch in neutral momentarily and apply gas to rev the engine up, then depress the clutch and pull it down to the next gear.  Sounds complicated-but is actually simple once you get the momentum of the transmission. Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
RJ
Former Giant Greenbrier Owner
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2881





Ignore
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2011, 11:12:39 PM »

Brian & Gus -

The basic Spicer transmission model in the 4104, 4106, etc. is a 7145.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
Logged

RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
S13406 Now
Fresno CA
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!