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Author Topic: Cement  (Read 3632 times)
JohnEd
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« on: July 04, 2011, 10:07:06 AM »

A bus topic?  You bet'cha.

I am having my curb removed and a driveway installed.  I will be driving across the new curb, across the strip between the curb and sidewalk and a short strip from the sidewalk into my property.  I plan to have compacted gravel put in to actually support the bus.  44 feet long gravel "pad".  Am I correct in say that the concrete must require reinforcement with rebar?  How thick should the concrete be?  I expect the thing to support a Prevost.  What might one of those weigh.  40 ft, but the one I get might have marble in the kit and ba.  Any body have info on this?  Lessons learned?

I am going to contract this work.  Things like a beveled edge at the transition to gravel?  Clueless.  And that is the tip of this iceberg, I am sure.  I want to at least have some intelligent questions to ask before I talk with contractors and get bids.

I figure that some of you have faced this problem and at the very least know what doesn't work.

Thanks,

John
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luvrbus
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2011, 10:13:09 AM »

6 inches reinforced concrete at least John you will be wasting your money with 4 inch and wire mesh fwiw my shop floor and the entrance aprons are 8 inches thick,get some info from a soils testing co in Eugene you never know it may require a lime or flyash sub base with a 1 ft of base materiel then the concrete you never know I never did work in that area so I cannot help you all areas are different

good luck
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 10:40:59 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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bevans6
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« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2011, 10:26:15 AM »

The bed preparation under the concrete is as important as the concrete from what I have learned.  Look into how deep the gravel bed needs to be, and the gravel size.  I kind of like gravel for the parking spot, it drains well.  Again, it needs to be thick.  About twice as thick as I thought it needed to be   Grin

Brian
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RJ
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« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2011, 10:42:59 AM »

John -

Some of those high-end glitzy Prevost's are in the 54,000 lb range when ready to roll.

So tell the folk you're contracting w/ it's got to be able to support 30 tons sitting on it w/o cracking.  That gives you some overkill wiggle room, even if you don't get a glitzmobile.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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Ralph7
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« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2011, 10:48:21 AM »

   Concrete  with fiber as reinforcment (mixed in)  at least 6in. thick, now width 12 feet, so one can work in bays.  Like others good drainage, deep gravel/stone base. If you go 10foot wide Huh go walk around an 8 ft. wide unit and see how much room you have for upkeep of the area grass/weeds/vegetation/etc....  Washing/waxing no wet mess to walk in.  
    Like others approach pad need deeper, cause stopping and starting is more stress.
    Rebar not always needed if useing fiber.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2011, 10:52:23 AM »

You can also up the sack mix on concrete for more strength and river rock in concrete makes a stronger mix than crushed stone in cement,the geo/mats help strengthen a area also  

good luck
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Taibob
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« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2011, 10:58:36 AM »

JOHN,
Appears that you want to Re and Re a city or municipal curb and sidewalk..They have specific guidelines for this and will provide the necessary regulations and engineered drawings. You shall also require the [$$$$.$$] permits and inspections. A typical 4 inch
city sidewalk does not have rebar in it and will not support the weight of the coach. Design the transitions, between curb and sidewalk and opposite side,carefully to eliminate hazzards to the [[trip and sue]] pedestrians. Crushed limestone or roadbase will compact better than plain round rock gravel. make sure your contractor has all the necessay permits, insurances etc.
HTH
Bob
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luvrbus
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« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2011, 11:01:47 AM »

Yep, they call that a curb cut permit make sure your contractor can pull that permit or you will have 2 different contractors most curb cuts require a bonded contractor 99% of the time I had to pull those for my subs 

good luck
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 11:05:52 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2011, 01:38:47 PM »

Most gutters are about 6 inches thick.  8 inches at the back of the curb if it is going to butt up against a driveway. 
  Ive guided many a concrete truck over  gutters of this dimension.   Didnt crack too many. 
   If it was my driveway (heavy load) Id make sure it had a good base and 8 inches minimum of concrete in the gutter area.  2 pieces of rebar running the length of it.  Although fiber mesh seems to work well too. 

  You might ask about Hi-Early concrete.  Reaches full strength    quickly.   With regular mud Id wait 30 days before putting a huge load on it.  Ask your contractor, hell know about this stuff.

John M.
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John M.
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JohnEd
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« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2011, 01:47:51 PM »

You guys are great.  I have the "curb cut permit".  $370.  Not bad if I am getting inspections that actually upgrade the quality of the construction in this city.  past experience leads exactly in the opposite direction.  We can still hope.

I have talked to numerous contractors that tell me "I will not accept any work within the Eugene city limits solely because of the inspectors".  My experience, as well.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2011, 02:03:40 PM »

Calcium Chloride is added for a fast set (hi early) in colder weather most City,County,Federal and State agencies won't allow it except in emergency use it works best with Flyash ( some don't allow flyash) in concrete never heard of it reaching full strength before regular concrete all the 28 day breaks we did on it were not as strong (high) as regular concrete the 7 day break was better though
 It was a no/no for Wal/Mart except in manholes or inlets bottoms so was flyash concrete the finishers love the flyash concrete I am not a fan either never used it on my personal stuff  

good luck
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 02:12:00 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2011, 06:03:11 PM »

We used calcium in the winter, spring and late fall, and if it was really cold, hot water.  The Hi-Early concrete, if I recall correctly, is a special mud designed to reach full strength very fast.  We built an entire 3 story parking garage out of it.  They wanted to be able to use the garage as soon as possible.  It's still standing twenty years later, must have worked!      jm
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John M.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2011, 06:17:46 PM »

Yea but a parking garage is 6000 or a 8000 lb mix also most decks are 6000 lbs mix and uprights and beams are 8000lb lot of difference than the 4000 lb flat work concrete at least they were on the ones I built

good luck
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 06:27:28 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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babell2
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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2011, 02:05:11 PM »

My Father built a Bus Barn in Illinois in the fall.  Temps were dropping and they calcium ed the mix.  One of the trucks got stuck in wet mud and the pour was delayed.  Years later the foundation in that trucks pour crumbled and had to be repaired at great expense with pinning, jacking and and re-pouring (not fun) be careful with cement handling using calcium.

Brice
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2011, 03:41:51 PM »

You have to remember that you are also only talking about a little area that you occasionally will be driving over. Best to err on the safe side but I would let the local contractor explain your options. He does it for a living and is familiar with your area. My bigger concern would be the gravel pad that the bus sits on. I have a gravel area on the side of my shop that the bus will sink to it's axles in if I park it there. A better option may be a crushed concrete or what we call white rock in a 1 1/4 " size. The jagged edges of the rock interlock and make a good base. If you live in a wet area gravel won't support a bus. I'd charge you 2 cents for my opinion but then I'd feel guilty.... Wink ps.... In our area they don't tear out the curb and repour the approach. They grind the concrete down.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 04:02:26 PM by Chopper Scott » Logged

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