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Author Topic: 4905 Safety Inspection--Now Depressed!!  (Read 3222 times)
pabusnut
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P8M4905A-333 former MK&O lines #731




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« on: July 18, 2011, 09:03:40 AM »

 Sad My long awaited world tour is probably now cancelled!

The state safety inspection on my 1973 4905 revealed several major items that the previous shop apparently shouldn't have left pass. One major item is a bad tie rod end on the steering and bad joint at the steering gear.  The second major item is brake linings that are starting to crack, and one shoe on the rear wheel that is completely backed off while the other one is right up against?!  They also mentioned that rust is building up behind the shoe(I assume this to mean in the "corner" of the drum?) I just had the brakes supposedly adjusted at a reputable shop, and no mention was made of this problems with the brakes. 

The minor items include a non-working windshield washer pump, inoperable low air buzzer(it worked yesterday when I started it, but not today for them), speedometer that doesn't work, license plate light inop, non-working backup lights.  Things I knew about were 3 dead bulbs in front clearence lights, and broken lens in the backup lights.

The steering I see is the biggest problem, and something I don't want to trust taking on a long trip until it is fixed.  My goal of leaving (in the bus) on 8 August is now shot!
I won't have time to get the "house" systems finished let alone the now needed mechanical repairs.


I know I can get the tie rod end from Luke, but any ideas on the steering?  I assume I am going to have to get the steering gear rebuilt.  I don't think my repair manual has an exploded diagram of the steering gear itself, and I don't know what brand it is.

Any and all thoughts are greatly appreciated.
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Steve Toomey
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« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2011, 09:19:18 AM »

On the bright side, you found out about a potentially serious steering problem without having an on-the-road emergency!
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bevans6
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« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2011, 09:28:10 AM »

What is the bad joint at the steering gear?  I don't understand that part of it.  new brake shoes are easy enough, and I would recommend trying to replace the complete tie rod rather than just the ends.  Mine is only 8 years old, and the joints are rusted in so tight I cannot move them.  A new tie-rod is cheap if you can find one the right length.

Other than that, sounds like a couple of decent weekends.  Adjusting brakes isn't like taking the drums off an inspecting them, different jobs...

now that you know, you'll be a lot happier after things are fixed up right!

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
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pabusnut
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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2011, 09:39:18 AM »

 Undecided  I really don't know which steering "joint" they were talking about until I see them face to face tomorrow morning.  I will take the manual along and have them point it out.  I agree with replacing the whole tie rod, if it can be found.  On my cars that is normally the cheaper option, but not sure on the bus.  After it is out, it is a lot easier to take apart on the garage floor.

The problem is always time--not enough of it when the weather is good for working outdoors! 

Steve
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Steve Toomey
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« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2011, 10:31:00 AM »

Funny how some states are stricter then others.  I live in California and have never had to go through a safety inspection for my registration.  I get under the bus twice a year to inspect everything myself, though.  Except for the tie rod and steer gear problem, the brakes are relatively easy to do and of course replacing lights is easy.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
boxcarOkie
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« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2011, 11:30:21 AM »

"The minor items include a non-working windshield washer pump, inoperable low air buzzer(it worked yesterday when I started it, but not today for them), speedometer that doesn't work, license plate light inop, non-working backup lights.  Things I knew about were 3 dead bulbs in front clearence lights, and broken lens in the backup lights."

Now let me see? 

You kinda knew these things were NOT working (beforehand) but you took it in for an inspection anyway?

Man-Man.

BCO
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pabusnut
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« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2011, 12:34:59 PM »

24 vDC bulbs aren't exactly a stock item at AutoZone!  NAPA carries them, but require 1+ week (and a significant amount of tracking)to get them in at $3.00+ each. I thought I would have them by the time of the scheduled inspection, but didn't happen. I swapped the good bulbs to the clearance lights that require significant work to remove--from the ones over the destination sign that just push in from inside the coach.  Still waiting on the bulbs from NAPA.  Kid+ bicycle+ old brittle plastic to blame a few days ago for the back-up lens.    Normally on small items--just pay them to fix and be done, which is what I planned to do.  Truck shops normally have some 24 VDC bulbs in stock.




 
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Steve Toomey
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« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2011, 01:46:32 PM »

My first question:  does the inspection shop also do the repair work.  If so, that puts a different slant of things.  You would have to wonder if they are fishing for business.  Your description, if it properly transcribes what they told you sounds a bit out of whack to me.  Description terminology does not match up with what I would expect.

Obviously, you paying for the inspection and you should make sure that they ***SHOW*** you the steering and brake problems.

Stepping back a minute, you have absolutely done the right thing to have a "safety inspection" done.  Every owner should do a "DOT" type inspection once a year, or have a "non-official" inspection done.  It is not a huge job.

Concerning the brakes, you need to see what they are talking about.  If there is any question about the brakes, have them done by someone who knows what they are doing.  The cost is not huge.  When you go that far, you are not all that far from pulling the bearings and inspecting them as well - at least you have the bus off the ground and the big tires off the drums.

The steering can be a coin toss.  If the bus steers well, and the play in the steering wheel is close to specification, then you might postpone the work.  That is ****IF**** the tie rod (and whatever the other factor is - can't tell from the description) are not at a critical stage.  All tie rod ends develop a bit of play over the years.  You just need to take a look at it yourself and see if it seems to clunk when they move the steering wheel.  Kind of a judgment call.

In the scheme of things that are described here at times, your problems do not sound all that bad.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
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boxcarOkie
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« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2011, 02:01:03 PM »

24 vDC bulbs aren't exactly a stock item at AutoZone!  NAPA carries them, but require 1+ week (and a significant amount of tracking)to get them in at $3.00+ each. I thought I would have them by the time of the scheduled inspection, but didn't happen. I swapped the good bulbs to the clearance lights that require significant work to remove--from the ones over the destination sign that just push in from inside the coach.  Still waiting on the bulbs from NAPA.  Kid+ bicycle+ old brittle plastic to blame a few days ago for the back-up lens.    Normally on small items--just pay them to fix and be done, which is what I planned to do.  Truck shops normally have some 24 VDC bulbs in stock.

A lot of what you described should have been fixed beforehand as you stated it was "The state safety inspection on my 1973 4905" any time the govt. gets involved it is going to lead to problems (state or federal) best offense is a good defense.  

Fix what needs fixing first.

I have to agree with most everyone else, most of what you said or have described, is pretty minor, you can still get it up and running (safely) by the August deadline.

Go for it.

BCO
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jjrbus
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« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2011, 02:12:43 PM »

One shop passed it and the state shop failed it?  Something does not pass the sniff test Huh  With a good attitude I would go back to the first shop and ask some questions.
                   JIm
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2011, 02:25:51 PM »

After I made my last post, I did a bit more research.

For the brake shoes, inspection is fairly easy and judgment on replacement should be pretty straight forward.

What bothered me was the tie rod end inspection.  I did a bit of looking at DOT inspection documents and the ones I found simply say to check for wear.  From a ton of experience working on front ends over the years, I have a pretty good "gut feel" for what is acceptable.  However, I did a bit of digging and found this Dana Spicer document:

http://www2.dana.com/pdf/AXWP-0403.pdf

At least that document gives some way to measure how much is acceptable.  I don't think you need a dial indicator to detect something in excess of 1/16 of an inch lateral movement. 

I put my hand on the tie rod so that it contacts both the tie rod and tie rod end and then have someone crank the steering back and forth.  I think you will be able to tell if it is bad given the Dana guidelines.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
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luvrbus
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« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2011, 02:36:03 PM »

Most DOT station inspectors use a hand held laser to measure play one told me they cost around 20 bucks ea and make thousands in return   lol 

good luck
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2011, 03:36:20 PM »

Since the subject of safety inspection has come up, here is the official FMCSA inspection procedure:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/Fmcsrruletext.aspx?contentid=3702

Just so we are all on the same page, since we are classified as RVs, we are not required to have the Annual DOT inspection.  That said, we should all make sure that our vehicles comply with those safety standards.  For the most part, we can do the inspection ourselves, or pay to have a certified DOT inspector do the inspection (be very clear that you do not want an "official" inspection that would be reported to the DOT.  You simply want to make sure your bus is safe.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
prevosman
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« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2011, 04:27:05 PM »

Please take this as constructive criticism. We are driving large heavy vehicles and whether they are RVs or for commercial use we as drivers need to aspire to a higher standard than the average automobile driver.

I am certain all of the issues did not happen at once so it suggests to me some serious safety concerns were present for a while. Maybe a light bulb out can be excused. We all have had that. And I am sure we could say all of a sudden the washer fluid would not pump. Two items that should be corrected, but hardly show stoppers. But a low pressure buzzer, bad tie rod ends, brake defects, and a bad speedo when looked at indicate a pattern of disregard for safety. I am sure a lot of the defects can be rationalized but when it is so easy to fix things as they break and not allow them to accumulate I would be concerned about what stuff was not found in the inspection.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but the standard I use is if I would allow my grandchild to ride in that vehicle, and as it stands right now I would not.
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Jon Wehrenberg
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1997 Prevost Liberty
luvrbus
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« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2011, 04:36:41 PM »

I don't know where he lives but some states require a safety inspection and some are tough,the State of Texas failed my 2003 pickup for window tint of all things and the county where it is located failed me on emissions because it had a K&N airfilter all was legal in AZ with no inspections when I bought it lol I had a hard time finding a factory air cleaner.Texas requires a safety inspection on all vehicles they check your tire tread wear there

good luck
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 04:55:09 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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