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Author Topic: Research your GM coach by VIN  (Read 5471 times)
NonHippieBus
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« on: July 23, 2011, 11:16:34 PM »

I have a 1961 PD4106, #262.  I noticed that many people here have received quick responses to who/where their GM coaches were originally delivered/sold.   Just wondering where this information can be found.  If the source isn't available online, I really appreciate any light that can be shed on the history of my bus. 

Thanks,
Patrick
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RJ
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2011, 12:09:52 AM »

Patrick -

PD4106-262 was delivered new as fleet number 233 in May of 1961 to Mt Hood Stages, dba Pacific Trailways, based out of Bend, OR.

I get this info from a binder I have next to my desk, the printout of which I've had for over 12 years.  It covers all the GMC Parlor Cars from the PG-2501 up thru the end of production with the H8H649s (4905s).  Sorry, I don't remember where I got it, but JL Vickers (Roadrunner Tex) has the same roster, that may have been my source.  I don't know where JLV got his list, possibly Fred Rayman.

At one point in time, there were several sites on the web that had SOME of the GMC bus delivery rosters, but many were incomplete.  Sadly, many of those sites are gone, with no one picking up the slack.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
S13406 Now
Fresno CA
technomadia
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Zephyr - 1961 GM PD-4106-446


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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2011, 01:53:26 AM »

When we bought our 4106 last month, we found this delivery list online to find out the original owner:

http://www.reocities.com/buslist/Delivery/PD4106/pd4106_1.html

(To navigate to higher VINs, just change the X in pd4106_X.html)

 - Cherie
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Cherie and Chris / www.technomadia.com
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Red Rider
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2011, 12:30:40 PM »

Thanks RJ. Some of you folks are very special. I for one appreciate your efforts in disseminating that information to those who request it. When I bought my 4106 you where "johnny on the spot" with the data. Thanks again
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Mike AKA; Red Rider 4106-1885
la chiva
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4107 buffalo 67




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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2011, 08:44:58 PM »

hey guys
i have a pd4107 0902 can anyone give alittle hitory on my bus

thanks
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RJ
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2011, 12:49:46 AM »

Chiva -

PD4107-902 was delivered new in May of 1967 as fleet number 7989 to Western Greyhound Lines, based out of San Francisco, CA, altho corporate HQ by that time was in Chicago.  Most likely it was sold off to second-tier operators after the summer season of 1977.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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S13406 Now
Fresno CA
Runcutter
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2011, 06:29:57 AM »

I am not sure if they're still doing it, but the Ohio Museum of Transportation will supply Final Vehicle Records (basically the delivery record, as built, how the bus was built, options installed, etc.)  - for a donation of $25.00.  Mike Ondecker is the contact, but I've lost his email address in transitioning among computers.

Here is their web site -- FVR's are mentioned on the Museum Store page.  http://www.omot.org/buses.htm

Arthur
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Arthur Gaudet    Carrollton (Dallas area) Texas 
1968 PD-4107

Working in the bus industry provides us a great opportunity - to be of service to others
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« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2011, 04:30:50 PM »

thank you guys really appreciated Smiley Smiley
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NonHippieBus
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« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2011, 09:24:42 AM »

Patrick -

PD4106-262 was delivered new as fleet number 233 in May of 1961 to Mt Hood Stages, dba Pacific Trailways, based out of Bend, OR.


Awesome info, thank you so much,  I'm from Oregon, little more than than an hour from where 4106-262 was originally delivered.   I still see Pacific Trailways buses all the time, parked around the corner from my house.   It's really cool that my bus found its way home.
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Boomer
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« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2011, 10:37:48 AM »

Pacific Trailways went out of business in the 1980's after Baldwin United (yes the piano company) bought them in a leveraged buy out because the company was completely debt free.  They had no intention of running a bus company and quickly bankrupted it.  They purchased the company from the sons of Bill Neskanan who had owned it and built it up (despite a war with Greyhound which lasted decades) over much of his life.  It was a very good bus company.  It began as Mt. Hood Stage Lines in the '20s and was headquarted in Bend, OR for most of it's life before moving to Portland.  After Baldwin defaulted the company was taken back by the Neskanan brothers and the rest was liquidated.  The operating authority was split between a company in Idaho who took the rights east of the Cascades, and Vern Trigg who took everything west of the Cascades.  Vern was a good operator too, his company was Evergreen Stage Lines in Portland and he had the Grayline franchise also.  Vern retired and sold out in the '90's (passing away shortly thereafter) to a crook named Jerry Kilb who ran another good company into the ground and bankrupted it.  The company ceased to exist in 2002.  One of Kilb's tricks to generate cash was to create false credit card invoices for tours that never happened.  He got into U.S. Bank for about a million before he got caught.  By the way, Bill Neskanan was involved in a lawsuit with Greyhound that lasted for about 20 years and went all the way to the US Supreme Court and Greyhound lost.  With interest, damages, etc. they had to pay him many millions of dollars.  To date it is still the largest lawsuit ever lost by Greyhound.  Bill was one small operator who decided to fight back against the 'Hound when they were squashing any and all competitors.  It took him most of his life, but he won in the long run although he died before he could enjoy it.  I know all this because my company wound up taking over some of the prime accounts when Evergreen Grayline folded.  Not to contradict you, but you are not seeing any Pacific Trailways buses.  They have not existed since the '80's.
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'81 Eagle 15/45
'47 GM PD3751-438
'65 Crown Atomic
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Kevin
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« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2011, 04:54:43 PM »

Very Interesting, Boomer.

Runcutter, yes, Ohio Museum of Transportation is alive and well. They sent my Final Vehicle Records for my beloved '60 PD 4104-4983 (took quite a long time... In fact, I'd completely forgotten about it by the time it arrived...) and it is very interesting to see the original order information. Well worth the $25.00 donation.

By the way... An option (which I chose) indicated that I would also receive a monthly mailing (for one month) after which I could cancel at any time... I did request the mailing, but it never came. Still, no regrets... the info is quite detailed and gives one an accurate description of how the bus was built and to whom originally delivered.

Kevin
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« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2011, 07:04:24 PM »

I have received a few issues of the newsletter, maybe one or two a year. Not bad for a small volunteer group. I have renewed my OMOT membership each year to he'll support them. I was General Manager of one of the transit systems in Ohio a couple of decades ago, and support their work. Their supplying Final Vehicle Records is a nice touch.

Arthur
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Arthur Gaudet    Carrollton (Dallas area) Texas 
1968 PD-4107

Working in the bus industry provides us a great opportunity - to be of service to others
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« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2011, 07:59:59 PM »

It doesn't always work according to the delivery list I am not to bad about chasing down serial number on Eagle's and have found out both Greyhound and Trailways would tie up the production with bus orders then if a smaller outfit or a Metro needed a bus they would sell those a bus out of their order.
I had a 05 Eagle the delivery list showed it went to Rocky Mountain when actually VanderHoof picked the bus up in Dallas from Trailways with 500 miles on it.
It showed Rocky Mountain from the factory but they never titled it only showed VanderHoof and I bought it from VanderHoof with all the paper work showing they were the first owner
I run across this all the time and that was the way it was explain to me

good luck
« Last Edit: July 30, 2011, 08:03:28 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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1965 PD-4106


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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2013, 01:51:51 PM »

Don't want to rehash old threads but i feel i need to respon to part of this one. I am current webmaster for WGM and right now i am asking for input to "The G.M. Project. Currently it is an idea and you can "vote" your opinion. I curently have a copy of "Delivery Rosters" and i would really like to make a data colection so we don't lose all this valuable info.

I can be reached email shuvlrider@hotmail.com



Patrick -

PD4106-262 was delivered new as fleet number 233 in May of 1961 to Mt Hood Stages, dba Pacific Trailways, based out of Bend, OR.

I get this info from a binder I have next to my desk, the printout of which I've had for over 12 years.  It covers all the GMC Parlor Cars from the PG-2501 up thru the end of production with the H8H649s (4905s).  Sorry, I don't remember where I got it, but JL Vickers (Roadrunner Tex) has the same roster, that may have been my source.  I don't know where JLV got his list, possibly Fred Rayman.

At one point in time, there were several sites on the web that had SOME of the GMC bus delivery rosters, but many were incomplete.  Sadly, many of those sites are gone, with no one picking up the slack.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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Boomer
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« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2013, 06:45:08 PM »

NotaPup:

How far back do your copies of the delivery records go?

Mark

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'81 Eagle 15/45
'47 GM PD3751-438
'65 Crown Atomic
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NotaPup
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1965 PD-4106


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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2013, 06:45:09 AM »

PDG-3701,PDG-4101,PDA-3701,PGA3701,PGA-3702,PDA-3702,PDA-3703,PD-3751,PD-4151,PD-4102,PD-3704,PDA-4101,PD-4103,PD-4903,PD-4107,P8M-4108A,P8M-4905A,PD-4108,PD-4905,H8H-649,ACF BRILL IC-41/37,ACF BRILL IC-41A



NotaPup:

How far back do your copies of the delivery records go?

Mark

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pd4501-771
Tom McNally
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PD4501-771 "All 43 seats.....still a bus !"


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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2013, 05:50:03 PM »

Boomer

I'll bet the PD-3751 listing got your attention....as it did mine! I have been meaning to contact Charlie about this records project for a while. Maybe we can have a discussion with him in Blytheville.

Tom
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PD4501-771
PD4501-1001
PD4104-3462
PD3751-686

If you know of the whereabouts of a PD4501 Scenicruiser - I would like to add the serial number to my registry of surviving Scenics.  www.tomsgarageonline.com
Boomer
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« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2013, 05:32:48 AM »

Hi Tom,
Charlie was kind enough to mail me the delivery files last night.  Wow, PGL sure bought a huge number of them!  I have the final factory record on mine too, which was obtained from Mike Ondecker.  Also a copy of the factory paint schematic which nobody seems to have.

New rear axle is in, new air lines, fuel lines.  Engine goes in today.  Yea!  There are some pics over on the Eagle board under Travel Tales.
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'81 Eagle 15/45
'47 GM PD3751-438
'65 Crown Atomic
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pd4501-771
Tom McNally
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« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2013, 07:14:38 AM »

Mark

Great. I received your photos. I hope all goes well with install, etc.

Take care

Tom
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PD4501-771
PD4501-1001
PD4104-3462
PD3751-686

If you know of the whereabouts of a PD4501 Scenicruiser - I would like to add the serial number to my registry of surviving Scenics.  www.tomsgarageonline.com
Axle
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« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2013, 08:46:36 PM »

Hi,

Just took the plunge on TWO PD-4106 buses.  From two separate owners.  One's running great and ready to use.  The other has a stripped out interior and a non-running engine, but saw a lot of nice upgrades earlier in life. 

Paid market for the good one.  Got the non-running one for what the Alcoa wheels and relatively new (mileage and date stamp) tires are worth, just for hauling it away.

Not sure if the non-running bus will be for parts or if I'll try to redo it.  Need a little time to sort it out before I decide.

I'd love to know the original history and anything available on previous owners if its available.  Searched around and couldn't find a better place to ask, but if there is someplace else this should be posted, please let me know and I'll move my request there.

Good Bus - Pd-4106-1395

Non-Running Bus - PD-4106-1165

Thanks,
Axle
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roadrunnertex
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« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2013, 06:47:05 AM »

PD-4106-1165-Southern Kansas Greyhound Lines (SKG).Fleet # 210
SKG was owned by Greyhound & Trailways each had 50% interest in the company.
Home office was Tulsa,OK.

PD-4106-1395-Central Greyhound Lines. KC,MO
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Axle
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« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2013, 09:59:16 AM »

Thanks for the quick response.

Both buses bought in the KC Metro area, so they hadn't drifted far from their old stomping grounds.

Anyone else know anything about the original owners / converters?  Or a Kansas area club or group that might know more about their early motorhome history?

Thanks,
Axle
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