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Author Topic: How NOT to remove an old gasket  (Read 2809 times)
belfert
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« on: July 24, 2011, 06:19:04 AM »

I had to remove the oil cooler housing and core from my engine to fix an oil leak.  The gasket was stuck on the oil cooler core.  I asked my mechanic friend how to remove the gasket and he removed the gasket for me with a sanding disk in a die grinder.

The problem is I discovered later that bits of gasket and sanding grit got up inside the oil cooler.  I took the core over to a heavy truck garage to see if they could flush out the core and the mechanic said it needed to be replaced, or I would risk a $10,000 rebuild.  It cost me $200 to get a new oil cooler core.  I could have got one cheaper by ordering, but I wanted to get it back together yesterday.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2011, 07:07:14 AM »

 Huh
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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2011, 09:31:10 AM »

You should have taken the cooler to a automotive machine shop or a radiator shop and let them dip it or bake it you wasted some money there you could have used else where but it is your money

good luck
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belfert
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2011, 10:32:03 AM »

The diesel mechanics I talked to said not to bother trying to get the crap out of the oil cooler as it usually doesn't work because of the mesh in the cooler.  The original reason I went to them was to see if they could clean out the cooler.  Their recommendation was to replace versus a possible engine rebuild down the road.  They didn't sell me the replacement cooler so they missed out on making some money on cleaning my cooler.

When the options are $200 versus possibly $10,000 it was an easy decision.  Sure, I would liked to not spend more money, but oh well.  Even Detroit says to replace the cooler if you get metal particles in the oil.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2011, 11:24:17 AM »

You replace the cooler after engine failure and if you would have taken the whole filter and housing down to a shop and done it right instead of a half @$# job like you tend to do on everything it would have saved you some money that was my point


 
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2011, 12:13:31 PM »

Wow Clifford.  

My take on it is that Brian generally asks the experts here when he has a project.  

I always enjoy his posts, as he does lots of thinking about his "modifications" and comes on here with a well thought out questions.   Many of his questions are of general interest to the members and his subject titles are pretty specific as opposed to "newbie question" - I really hate subject titles that do not describe what the poster wants to know (I skip most of those when I am in a hurry).

In addition to asking reasonable questions (or posting warnings when you make a mistake), Brian makes constructive contributions to many threads.

Just my thoughts.

Jim
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 12:23:31 PM by rv_safetyman » Logged

Jim Shepherd
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2011, 12:17:25 PM »

You replace the cooler after engine failure and if you would have taken the whole filter and housing down to a shop and done it right instead of a half @$# job like you tend to do on everything it would have saved you some money that was my point


 

Comments like this make us new guys not ask questions.  Why would anyone want to ask for advice when this is the response they get?

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luvrbus
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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2011, 12:27:04 PM »

Yes he does Jim then he goes the opposite or has his mind made up before he asks he needs to write book about his ordeals I would buy one lol 
 Did he ask for advice Eric NO he didn't my point he cost himself 200 buck and now he looking for a cheap system for noise control and insulation he could have used the 200 for that
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zubzub
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2011, 12:32:35 PM »

before this gets all off thread...
How should one remove the gasket material?
Usually I would use a razor or similar, with some kind of covering over adjacent areas.  But if there is a better way.....
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2011, 12:35:53 PM »

That method is tough to beat Pat but requires a little work 

good luck
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Van
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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2011, 12:53:40 PM »

Brian, I thought you were sold on the advise to use a brass wire wheel to remove the remaining gasket material  Huh What could have happened to change your mind? What is done is done, lesson learned. Onward and upward as we all learn the unfamiliar at our own pace. :

 Keep them Questions coming in Smiley
    Van
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2011, 01:01:53 PM »

I too have been frustrated @ Brian on more than one occasion for going against the flow and not doing something the way most of us suggested. And then getting back on here and reporting about the failure and what not.
So I understand where Clifford is coming from.

But at the same time I do respect that it is Brian's bus, and his right to do it his way.

I farther more appreciate & respect that he does get back on here and report the failures and why they failed or whatever. As it either confirms what had already been said or helps me understand and learn what not to do.

SO MANY members get on here and ask advice and then don't follow it and NEVER report anything because they are too embarrassed!
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2011, 01:07:30 PM »

[quote author=zubzub link=topic=20882.msg227903#msg227903 date=131153595
How should one remove the gasket material?
Usually I would use a razor or similar, with some kind of covering over adjacent areas.  But if there is a better way.....
[/quote]

They do make gasket scrappers just for that, works great on iron and steel flanges. One has to be carefull with aluminum flanges, I've seen the results of using sanding wheels on them. Must be the reason they make gasket sealant.  

Heat gun, then scrape?
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zubzub
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« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2011, 01:17:03 PM »

yeah, I've made scrapers from hard maple when I didn't want to damage the surface,  some hard plastics are also very effective.
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2011, 03:01:57 PM »

To lighten the subject it looks like the best way is to use a credit card too......... buy a new one! I know I learn or at least remember mistakes more so than success's. In my business I try to stear folks away from the cheapest route because it always ends up the most expensive route in the end. I wish folks would post more of the "don't do this" so we can all learn and not be worried about someone thinking they are stupid. Luckily some guy years ago warned us that getting casterated wasn't the way to go and that Golds Bond worked great!
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bevans6
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« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2011, 03:34:25 PM »

I use an old wood chisel, I grind a slightly rounded face with no sharp corners and I carve off the old gasket, just like it was wood.  Right down to the metal, then I use scrapers that I sharpen with a hook edge.  If there is no possibility of contamination, then I pull out the power tools...

Brian
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belfert
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« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2011, 04:09:20 PM »

My other question where the brass wire wheel was suggested was to remove the leftover residue from the seal rings.  I did use a brass wheel in my Dremel on the seal ring residue, but the Dremel brass wheel wore so fast there was no way it would help on the gasket.

I started with a gasket scraper, but it was going to take all day.  I had to go over to my friend's house anyhow so I took the part with me to ask him about it since he is a mechanic.  He said I take them off with a sanding disk and he did it.  It only took a few minutes.  Neither he nor I thought about debris getting inside the oil portion because the holes were on the bottom.  In hindsight a couple of pieces of tape would stopped any debris from getting in the holes.  I'm not blaming my friend because I didn't notice the issue either.

Money is not the reason for the cheap temporary soundproofing.  I have no idea exactly how I am going to finish that area.  I don't want to do a bunch of permanent work only to rip it all out later.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2011, 07:34:24 PM »

I have used old bondo narrow - 1inch - for a scraper on aluminum. They come in several widths probably from an auto parts house. I buy my paint supplies from industrial fininshes - the commercial vehicle paint store. Credit card stuff doesnt have a handle like they do.

As far as making mistakes... that is what i try the first 3 times before i figure out what is wrong... Grin
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« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2011, 08:51:16 PM »

I sometimes do dumb stuff right off the bat, because I think it is a no-brainer, which normally means I thought it was so simple that I thought no more about it.  This normally gets me into trouble.  I mean what I thought was a fast effective way to do something now requires 3 hours of cleanup afterwards!  If I waste more time thinking, I end up saving time overall by not having to fix(or clean) whatever afterwards.  So from that aspect, I can see where Brian got himself into it.  When you're dumb(like me sometimes)--You gotta be tough.  Brian did help us by reporting back, so we can learn from his mistake--at his expense.

"They" say time is money, but sometimes money is time.  Convenience costs.  We could probably do everything ourselves on our bus conversions, but if we don't "hire some stuff out" we would never get finished.  Since I am not restoring my bus, there are many original bus stuff parts that are now in the county landfill that I chose not to restore.  Sometimes I spend more than I need to--in order to keep the "original" bus look. 

When I need help, I ask the group and consider their advise, and carefully consider that collective wisdom before making my decision on what to do.  I do consider the wealth of experience and knowledge on this and other boards extremely valuable.  The action I take may still be different that the advice given, but will be one factor of many which normally include time and money, convenience and style.

Bottom line is each of us is "doing it our way" and our project will be a reflection of it's owner/builder. 

Some of us need to keep our dents and scratches in our fenders to remind us what is important in life. 

Steve Toomey
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« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2011, 10:41:39 PM »

  After some time around aircraft and exotic cars, I found you cant clean an oil cooler with standard shop practises. They really need to be sent out to a shop that specialises. You "think" running some solvent through will do it, but really all you do is loosen everything up and either destroy an engine or start clogging filters. On a $10-30K engine its just not worth screwing around. Either leave it alone or do it right.

  You also should never wire brush off a gasket, it usually ends up damaging the gasket surface, or in this case clogging up the cooler. Wood chisles, plastic chisles, or carefully with a razor/steep scraper.

  As to the other side, I an understand frustration with certain situations, but hopefully we can all find a way to have patience with one another.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2011, 06:33:11 AM »

Most oil coolers are magnetic to clean one the shop has to have the means to demagnetize the screens it done everyday I do it with a torch my self a flame will demagnetize one

good luck
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JohnEd
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« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2011, 11:23:39 AM »

I had to remove the oil cooler housing and core from my engine to fix an oil leak.  The gasket was stuck on the oil cooler core.  I asked my mechanic friend how to remove the gasket and he removed the gasket for me with a sanding disk in a die grinder.

The problem is I discovered later that bits of gasket and sanding grit got up inside the oil cooler.  I took the core over to a heavy truck garage to see if they could flush out the core and the mechanic said it needed to be replaced, or I would risk a $10,000 rebuild.  It cost me $200 to get a new oil cooler core.  I could have got one cheaper by ordering, but I wanted to get it back together yesterday.

Brian,

This, like many of your posts, is a valuable "lessons learned" post.  Thank you for sharing this. It might save someone the cost of an overhaul one day.  We all profit from your being candid about your experience and history.  While you have on numerous occasions chosen to do your project at variance to some of the advice here, I have never felt that you disdained that advice or a member.

Please continue to hold the common good as your priority and risk criticism. 

Thank you,

John
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« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2011, 03:55:22 PM »

I think we can all take this and put it in a lessons learned been there done that category.  Listen to those of us that have tried short cuts or the "Easy Way" and have learned by the experience.  Learn from others mistakes not you own and you are a large leg up from someone starting out on their own.

Brice

Brian Thanks for the info.
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« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2011, 09:02:30 PM »

Any kind of wire wheel would not be a good idea in this case simply because the little wires fly off the wheel and go in all directions (Into the cooler!!). At least brass will probably do no serious damage.
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« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2011, 05:05:15 PM »

I have found that there is a spray gasket remover that works good. I get it at Auto Zone.
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« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2011, 06:12:09 PM »

Thanks for the lessons and tips on this thread! Im sorry about your loss Brian. If it helps any, I have a guy friend who often comes and helps me on projects. Many times though I know Im in over my head and being a friend, he steps in to do the job. But about 50% of the time I find out "after" the job is done that he didnt know what he was doing either and now I have to do a lot of research and fix the original and new problems myself. Sigh, it is called learning. Be glad you dont pay your friend like I do mine.
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